[DF] I can haz gunpowderz?

[Daigoro]

If you've got fairy armourers, could they also microsmith improvements to simple lead-ball ammo- like fin-stabilised rounds or something?

[blacksmith]

What about things like oricalcum barrels and such to make more powerful lighter guns?

[SuedodeuS]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

If you've got fairy armourers, could they also microsmith improvements to simple lead-ball ammo- like fin-stabilised rounds or something?

Some improvements might be possible, but I don't see fin-stabilized working out. Those would rely on either a discarding sabot or fins that stay in while in the barrel and pop out on exiting. I'm not certain the discarding sabot would occur to DF armorers, and self-deploying fins may be beyond technical skills. Considering you can get similar effects from making magic ammunition, nobody may ever actually bother with researching such a mundane method (or paying for such rounds, as they'd likely be very expensive).

[Captain-Captain]

DF is supposed to be retro gaming, old school delver style. Guns should be simple things. Longer reload EQUALS Bigger BOOM. POWER Balance issue settled. If that means DF guns do damage that bears NO relation to the regular GURPS gun stats, so be it.

Rifling, any material improvements over "Very Fine" things not introduced till TL 5 are COMPLEXITIES and violate the 'simple' standard and are not fit for DF because of that complexity.

[SuedodeuS]

Originally Posted by Captain-Captain

DF is supposed to be retro gaming, old school delver style. Guns should be simple things. Longer reload EQUALS Bigger BOOM. POWER Balance issue settled. If that means DF guns do damage that bears NO relation to the regular GURPS gun stats, so be it.

That can work. How much damage do you think they should do to justify their longer reload time?

Rifling, any material improvements over "Very Fine" things not introduced till TL 5 are COMPLEXITIES and violate the 'simple' standard and are not fit for DF because of that complexity.

I strongly disagree. After all, if nothing beyond quality should be considered, what's up with modifiers like Balanced, Dwarven, and Elven for weapons, and similar things (Dwarven, Spiked, etc) for armor? What about all the gear from DF 8? DF favors simplicity of mechanics, not simplicity of gear. Rifled is just another modifier, which can stack with Balanced (Accurized) but likely costs more.

[blacksmith]

Originally Posted by SuedodeuS

That can work. How much damage do you think they should do to justify their longer reload time?



I strongly disagree. After all, if nothing beyond quality should be considered, what's up with modifiers like Balanced, Dwarven, and Elven for weapons, and similar things (Dwarven, Spiked, etc) for armor? What about all the gear from DF 8? DF favors simplicity of mechanics, not simplicity of gear. Rifled is just another modifier, which can stack with Balanced (Accurized) but likely costs more.

I have to agree on this. Guns should be able to be tricked out with modifiers just like any other weapon.

Hmm, I just thought of what has to be one of the weirdest weapons, a kusari pistol.

[SuedodeuS]

Originally Posted by blacksmith

I have to agree on this. Guns should be able to be tricked out with modifiers just like any other weapon.

Hmm, I just thought of what has to be one of the weirdest weapons, a kusari pistol.

Entangle them the drop their Dodge*, then shoot them before they're close enough to kick at you. Awesome. It would even work on enemies that are too heavy for you to pull toward you, unlike a kusarigama.

*We'll ignore the possibility of them throwing off your aim by yanking on the chain while trying to Dodge. This is DF, after all.

[Turhan's Bey Company]

Originally Posted by Asta Kask

How would things change if you introduced gunpowder into the DF world? Which of the professions would be likely to use gunpowder weapons? What are the consequences of using a lot of gunpowder underground - IIRC, they gave off quite a lot of smoke?

I'd definitely allow gunpowder weapons in a DF game, subject to certain constraints:

• They're rare. None are available for purchase, and artificers require an Unusual Background-style advantage (call it Gunsmith; say, 10 points) to make their own and to produce their own gunpowder.
• They're fussy and difficult. Just because you've got the weapon doesn't mean you know how to use it. I'd treat Gun skill as a higher TL IQ-based skill and/or out-of-template for everyone for the purposes of learning how to use guns, save for artificers with Gunsmith.
• They're not safe. Crank up the Malf number and allow no purpose-built safety gear (fireproof powder horns and the like) for gunpowder storage. Large, inadvertent explosions are part of the charm.

With those in place, though, I'd find it terribly amusing to see a handful of DF characters using the odd blunderbuss and the gunpowder weapons in Fantasy-Tech.

[Kale]

I played a gnomish swashbuckler in a fantasy game a long time ago. He had a rapier and two high-quality flintlock pistols. The best use he made of the pistols was in foiling an enemy cavalry charge; the boom from the pistols scared their horses and broke their ranks. He only managed to hit somebody once with them and that didn't do enough damage to drop them. He had much more success with the rapier.
That said, if you give guns the DF treatment with things like the aforementioned Essential Gunpowder to deal more damage I think they would be a pretty reasonable weapon.

As for rifling, I vaguely recall that the reason it wasn't heavily applied historically is it slowed reloading for muzzle loaders. The rifling made it harder to ram the ball down the barrel, and often a mallet was required to hammer it home. The Minié ball corrects this problem though it is early TL5 technology. A very advanced musket would use rifling and use Minié balls for (relatively) fast loading.

[blacksmith]

Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company

I'd definitely allow gunpowder weapons in a DF game, subject to certain constraints:[LIST][*]They're rare. None are available for purchase, and artificers require an Unusual Background-style advantage (call it Gunsmith; say, 10 points) to make their own and to produce their own gunpowder.

I am thinking more a 5 point advantage that would be limited to Pirates and Artificers. So that the thief or knight simply can not use them.

[*]They're fussy and difficult. Just because you've got the weapon doesn't mean you know how to use it. I'd treat Gun skill as a higher TL IQ-based skill and/or out-of-template for everyone for the purposes of learning how to use guns, save for artificers with Gunsmith. [*]They're not safe. Crank up the Malf number and allow no purpose-built safety gear (fireproof powder horns and the like) for gunpowder storage. Large, inadvertent explosions are part of the charm.

BP weapons are just not that good, that if you have to hose them that much they will never be taken over say a crossbow on a sling or two. There is no reason I can see to like Pi++ over Imp.