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Old 10-01-2011, 12:11 PM   #1
Tyneras
 
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Default [Infinite Worlds] What is the Russian Mafia stealing?

When those Russian mafiosi decide to go play "Czar" and loot temples, what exactly are they stealing? I was discussing the Infinite Worlds setting with a non-gaming friend, and I had assumed they were taking gold and gems and other portable valuables. He pointed out that with access to scores of earths, the price of gold and gems should have cratered to the point a conveyer load of gold may not be worth the effort of carrying it compared to drug running. It would be like looting a parallel earth for copper.

Is the price of random ancient curios really that big? Or is there something else keeping the price of gold and such up enough people don't just dump in the recycle bin when they have extra?
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Old 10-01-2011, 12:43 PM   #2
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Default Re: [Infinite Worlds] What is the Russian Mafia stealing?

Worked gold and gems also have artistic value that goes beyond the $ value. Do not forget that a lot of religious Icons/Artifacts disappeared into the maelstroms of both the February and October Revolutions and their aftermaths, plus the chaos of WWII. Replacing those artifacts could be very important for various people/institutions. All of them would probably like their own copies too boot.
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Old 10-01-2011, 01:09 PM   #3
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Default Re: [Infinite Worlds] What is the Russian Mafia stealing?

My version of this has been:
  1. It's not really "infinite" worlds. There aren't all that many, and not all of them are suitable for mining even if you know where everything is. So raw resource prices haven't crashed.
  2. The stuff worth looting tends to be artworks rather than raw materials - yes, there's a big supply of "gold statues", but "gold statues of the three-handed Buddha" are rarer.
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Old 10-01-2011, 03:05 PM   #4
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Default Re: [Infinite Worlds] What is the Russian Mafia stealing?

Depending on how much of a given material fits into a conveyor, and given that a conveyor is relatively small, you can only bring relatively small loads of whatever back at a time. If you assume conveyor travel is expensive (IW setting says you need LOTS of power to cross Quantum Levels) then offworld mining is relatively impractical unless the material has a very high density value. It would probably be hard to flood a world's economy with, eg. gold if you can only bring a bit at a time and the power you consume to do so is worth a significant fraction of the conveyor trip costs.
The conveyor becomes the production bottleneck that keeps things from being economically imbalanced.
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Old 10-01-2011, 03:29 PM   #5
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Default Re: [Infinite Worlds] What is the Russian Mafia stealing?

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Originally Posted by Kale View Post
Depending on how much of a given material fits into a conveyor, and given that a conveyor is relatively small, you can only bring relatively small loads of whatever back at a time. If you assume conveyor travel is expensive (IW setting says you need LOTS of power to cross Quantum Levels) then offworld mining is relatively impractical unless the material has a very high density value. It would probably be hard to flood a world's economy with, eg. gold if you can only bring a bit at a time and the power you consume to do so is worth a significant fraction of the conveyor trip costs.
The conveyor becomes the production bottleneck that keeps things from being economically imbalanced.
Johnston's Rome works on tourist dollars. A conveyor full of Rhodium beats that easily.
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Old 10-01-2011, 03:51 PM   #6
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Default Re: [Infinite Worlds] What is the Russian Mafia stealing?

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Johnston's Rome works on tourist dollars. A conveyor full of Rhodium beats that easily.
Depends on how much each tourist is paying. Look at the billionaires who have paid $20M or more to visit the International Space Station...
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Old 10-01-2011, 04:32 PM   #7
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Default Re: [Infinite Worlds] What is the Russian Mafia stealing?

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Originally Posted by Tyneras View Post
When those Russian mafiosi decide to go play "Czar" and loot temples, what exactly are they stealing? I was discussing the Infinite Worlds setting with a non-gaming friend, and I had assumed they were taking gold and gems and other portable valuables. He pointed out that with access to scores of earths, the price of gold and gems should have cratered to the point a conveyer load of gold may not be worth the effort of carrying it compared to drug running.
Oh I don't know about that. Yes, there's a lot of gold out there, but there's even more demand for gold out there. Consider things from the point of view of Homeline merchant. What is the single most reliably valuable medium of exchange in the some thousand or two worlds they have discovered? There are very few worlds where gold is not a valuable, anonymous, easily unloaded commodity, usually worth _more_ in absolute terms than it is in our world or Homeline. Gold and shiny rocks. You can count on them to have at least some value anywhere humans swarm and multiply.

That being said, they'd probably have a particular interest in icons. With so many having been destroyed during the Communist years, post-Communist Russia would probably have a great interest in acquiring versions of them from worlds that haven't experienced that...at least not yet.
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Old 10-01-2011, 04:42 PM   #8
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Default Re: [Infinite Worlds] What is the Russian Mafia stealing?

I don't know about that. Modern society's obsession with gold seems pretty arbitrary to me. It's just a shiny rare metal with virtually no use.
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Old 10-01-2011, 04:49 PM   #9
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Default Re: [Infinite Worlds] What is the Russian Mafia stealing?

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I don't know about that. Modern society's obsession with gold seems pretty arbitrary to me. It's just a shiny rare metal with virtually no use.
If by modern you mean "for about 7,000 years or so". It's a rare metal that is remarkably stable and resistant to the elements, in that it doesn't rust or tarnish. It's also easy to purify and work with, which means that for delicate decorative work, gold is where it's at.

That makes it valuable, because it doesn't depreciate, it's not easy to fake, and it's useful for making decorative stuff.
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Old 10-01-2011, 06:09 PM   #10
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Default Re: [Infinite Worlds] What is the Russian Mafia stealing?

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Originally Posted by Verjigorm View Post
If by modern you mean "for about 7,000 years or so". It's a rare metal that is remarkably stable and resistant to the elements, in that it doesn't rust or tarnish. It's also easy to purify and work with, which means that for delicate decorative work, gold is where it's at.

That makes it valuable, because it doesn't depreciate, it's not easy to fake, and it's useful for making decorative stuff.
Then fact is is also a great conductor so it a important component in soild state electronics.

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A small amount of gold is used in almost every sophisticated electronic device. This includes: cell phones, calculators, personal digital assistants, global positioning system units and other small electronic devices. Most large electronic appliances such as television sets also contain gold.


The Space program use a lot of it too.
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