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Old 09-21-2020, 04:28 PM   #1
kirbwarrior
 
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Default Diffuse and armor

One of the cool upsides of Diffuse is that you basically can't be grappled. That makes perfect sense, it does sound impossible to grab a water elemental, for instance. But, none of the Body Of templates with Diffuse have Can't Wear Armor. Air and Fire can't as a result of ST0, but does that mean Water and Earth can? Are there any rules getting in the way of it?

I've had a diffuse race for awhile and I'm not actually sure what they can and can't wear. For simplicity I just ruled they can wear anything, but I'm not sure if that makes sense, let along is rules-sound.

Anyone deal with this situation before? Any thoughts on how anything related to clothing and armor, such as how easy or hard it is to get on or off?

Secondary question, do diffuse beings 'need' to buy Payload? I can easily see, say, a swarm of bugs or earth elemental just shoving a random object into themselves, but maybe without Payload they aren't 'strong' enough to actually hold it in place.

Thank you ahead of time.
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Old 09-21-2020, 04:46 PM   #2
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Default Re: Diffuse and armor

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Originally Posted by kirbwarrior View Post

Secondary question, do diffuse beings 'need' to buy Payload? I can easily see, say, a swarm of bugs or earth elemental just shoving a random object into themselves, but maybe without Payload they aren't 'strong' enough to actually hold it in place.
Payload lets them carry more without it counting towards encumbrance, otherwise though I would say they dont need it anymore than a human can carry something on their back.

It seems weird to wear armor or clothes if Diffuse but I dont see why not, as long as your strong enough to push it around.
However if all your looking for is to help with Grappling consider Slippery.
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Old 09-21-2020, 05:12 PM   #3
David Johnston2
 
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Default Re: Diffuse and armor

I've seen races that were basically mounds of animate goo poured into suits of armour. It's not really a big deal.
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Old 09-21-2020, 05:18 PM   #4
Anthony
 
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Default Re: Diffuse and armor

Diffuse does not, as written, limit the ability to apply strength, so it can wear armor and pick things up normally.
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Old 09-21-2020, 05:19 PM   #5
GnomesofZurich
 
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Default Re: Diffuse and armor

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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
I've seen races that were basically mounds of animate goo poured into suits of armour. It's not really a big deal.
In which case, the immunity to grappling might be lost, because one could, in theory, grapple the armour they're wearing.
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Old 09-21-2020, 05:21 PM   #6
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Default Re: Diffuse and armor

Diffuse either shouldn’t make you immune to grappling without an Enhancement, or should have a Limitation not to. IIRC, flexible armor in LTC2 is Diffuse, so being grapple-able should be an option. That said, I could see it as +0% rather than an Enhancement/Limitation, if we say grappling immunity also means you can’t wear armor.
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Old 09-21-2020, 05:22 PM   #7
mr beer
 
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Default Re: Diffuse and armor

Seems OK to rule that while Diffuse can't be grappled, the armour that they are encased in can be. The grapplee would then presumably have the option of engaging in a normal Grappling contest or abandoning the armour and regaining immunity to a Grapple.
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Old 09-21-2020, 05:37 PM   #8
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Default Re: Diffuse and armor

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Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
Payload lets them carry more without it counting towards encumbrance, otherwise though I would say they dont need it anymore than a human can carry something on their back.

It seems weird to wear armor or clothes if Diffuse but I dont see why not, as long as your strong enough to push it around.
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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
Diffuse does not, as written, limit the ability to apply strength, so it can wear armor and pick things up normally.
It's nice to know it is that simple.

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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
Diffuse either shouldn’t make you immune to grappling without an Enhancement, or should have a Limitation not to. IIRC, flexible armor in LTC2 is Diffuse, so being grapple-able should be an option. That said, I could see it as +0% rather than an Enhancement/Limitation, if we say grappling immunity also means you can’t wear armor.
I think I saw someone put it at -20% to remove that since it basically seemed like a 20pt disad to be able to be grappled. That actually lines up well with the proposed Can't Wear Armor being -20pts, too.
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Old 09-21-2020, 05:45 PM   #9
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Default Re: Diffuse and armor

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Originally Posted by kirbwarrior View Post
It's nice to know it is that simple.
Unfortunately it isn't; GURPS doesn't have the hard 'you get what you pay for' that appears in systems like Champions, so sometimes there are assumed advantages and disadvantages that aren't written down.
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Old 09-21-2020, 08:47 PM   #10
Ejidoth
 
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Default Re: Diffuse and armor

Oh, this is slightly off-topic but I have a Diffuse character with Payload, which has come up in this conversation... but also (for probably obvious reasons) the character has Invertebrate.

I wasn't clear if Invertebrate affects Basic Lift for determining Payload size or not. Do we have any clarification on that anywhere? Does taking Invertebrate effectively quadruple the cost of Payload?
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