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Old 11-03-2018, 10:49 AM   #21
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Default Re: GURPS Steampunk 2: Steam and Shellfire

At this moment there are two copies on eBay.co.uk... and another two on .com, it would appear
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Old 11-03-2018, 11:07 AM   #22
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Default Re: GURPS Steampunk 2: Steam and Shellfire

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Originally Posted by Sam Baughn View Post
Phil (or indeed anyone else) can you recommend some good books / websites / documentaries about Victorian and steampunk clothing?
The website Historical Emporium. They have victorian, western, and steampunk fashion items. Lolita fashion also has some crossover, mainly the steampunk, pirate, sailor, military, classic, and country subtypes.
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Old 11-03-2018, 12:01 PM   #23
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Default Re: GURPS Steampunk 2: Steam and Shellfire

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At this moment there are two copies on eBay.co.uk...
One less now.
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Old 11-03-2018, 01:13 PM   #24
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Default Re: GURPS Steampunk 2: Steam and Shellfire

I pulled most of my information on the subject out of general social histories, because costume was so important to people in the period. There are useful chapters in The Victorian House, by Judith Flanders, and The English: A Social History 1066-1945, by Christopher Hibbert. Then, to get a feel for what things actually looked like, wel, Googling around a few period illustrations and costume fan Web sites will do the job.
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Old 11-03-2018, 08:13 PM   #25
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Default Re: GURPS Steampunk 2: Steam and Shellfire

It seems like the Antikythera Mechanism on page 12 is in error. The example given would be Complexity 0, not -1.

If you meant a Genius Small Device, then the Complexity is right, weight is off by an order of magnitude and the cost is slightly wrong.

One based off a Smart Personal Device would be $500,000, the same weight (24) and Complexity -1.
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Old 11-04-2018, 04:32 AM   #26
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Default Re: GURPS Steampunk 2: Steam and Shellfire

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It seems like the Antikythera Mechanism on page 12 is in error. The example given would be Complexity 0, not -1.
Oops, you're right. For some reason, I got the TL complexity modifier wrong with that. Complexity 0 it should be (which is probably better for a fairly complex astronomical model) - and also $12.5 million, not 10.25. I was obviously having a bad morning there. Feel free to formally submit errata, someone.

(Alternatively, make it Smart instead of Genius, which makes it Complexity -1 and $500,000; a case could be made.)
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Old 11-04-2018, 10:52 AM   #27
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(Alternatively, make it Smart instead of Genius, which makes it Complexity -1 and $500,000; a case could be made.)
I would be willing to make that case. I would argue that the Device is not inherently much more complex than a [complexity -1] clock- if the relationships between the movements of the planets are more complex than between the hands of a clock (or even than between the hands of a clock and the automated angels and phase-of-the-moon gauges and so forth that proliferated on Renaissance and Baroque timepieces), it on the other hand is spared the need of an intricate escarpment. Certainly it does not respond to complex input in the sense of a [Complexity 0] autopilot or "simple one-player game" - as I understand it, there was only a single input, consisting of "dialing in" a date, with the heavens moving into their appropriate places as the date was shifted (much as the minute and hour hands [and phase-of-the-moon gauge] on a clock shift in response to the movement of the hands for smaller units of time). I would further point out that an orrery is listed amongst the Complexity -1 devices, and an orrery is in essence what the device is- although of course complicated by the need to show planets from the point of view of an unmoving earth rather than around an ummoving sun.

This also has the advantage of resulting in a construction price that seems less ridiculous. It certainly didn't cost anything like millions of GURPSbucks in materials to develop, and even treating it as the cost of keeping a genius on retainer seems dubious when one compares it to cost of living- even if twelve million GURPSbucks is spread over years of tinkering, that still implies an outlay similar to the entire cost of living of a "greater noble". A court philosopher who could could demonstrate particular cleverness might live well, but he didn't live that well.
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Old 11-04-2018, 03:33 PM   #28
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Default Re: GURPS Steampunk 2: Steam and Shellfire

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...even treating it as the cost of keeping a genius on retainer seems dubious when one compares it to cost of living- even if twelve million GURPSbucks is spread over years of tinkering, that still implies an outlay similar to the entire cost of living of a "greater noble". A court philosopher who could could demonstrate particular cleverness might live well, but he didn't live that well.
When it comes to things like inventions, I think you need to account not just for the cost of employing the person who successfully produced one but also for the number of unsuccessful inventors you would need on your payroll to average one amazing item per time period, because you don't know in advance which one is going to come up with something.
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Old 11-04-2018, 05:26 PM   #29
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Default Re: GURPS Steampunk 2: Steam and Shellfire

It feels more like the cost multipliers for Genius (and possibly Smart as well) are far too high. x10 and x50 might be more appropriate. But being long established I doubt they will change anytime soon.

The Antikythera Mechanism stood out to me simply because I've been watching a video series of someone reconstructing the mechanism using period appropriate tools and while a sky-high price would be about right for the first working prototype, once you know how to build it a price tag of under GURPS $100k would seem more appropriate.

The YouTube series for those interested:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ML4t...A0to4RXv4_jDU2

Edit: Having the Smart/Genius cost modifiers scale with the base Complexity of the device might work. Going from Complexity -2 to 0 is less of jump in capability than Complexity 5 to 7.
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Old 11-05-2018, 03:46 AM   #30
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Default Re: GURPS Steampunk 2: Steam and Shellfire

To be honest, the computer rules in general are rather highly abstracted; Genius, for example, has to encompass the possibility of turning a desktop PC into the "equivalent" of a mainframe. They're intended to make things simple for GMs who want quick answers, but I'd never blame anyone who ignored them in favour of researching real machine capabilities and eyeballing prices.

Anyhow, I'm still thinking how to errata the Antikythera Mechanism...
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