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07-26-2015, 03:51 PM | #1 |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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[SS] Cost of Hydrogen
In GURPS Spaceships page 46 it shows that hydrogen costs $2000 per ton.
In a Traveller style game a typical 100-ton Scout Ship with 60 tons of cargo will need about 20 ton of hydrogen for a 2 parsec jump. That's a cost of $40K. On GURPS Spaceships 2 it suggests that freight rates are $10 per parsec per day. So in a typical 2 parsec jump in a Traveller universe would be $140 per ton. In the case of full cargo, for the example above it would be a total of $140 * 60 = $8400. Fuel Cost: $40K Freight Revenue: $8.4K What's wrong? Is the hydrogen cost too high or the Freight rates too low? What changes do you suggest? |
07-26-2015, 04:12 PM | #2 |
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Re: [SS] Cost of Hydrogen
Using a ship with just 3% of it devoted to cargo is normally not very cost effective for shipping freight.
But in general for Traveller it is better to use the Traveller costs and incomes as Spaceships seems to assume a few thing in their freight costs: No special costs for FTL travel(not true in traveller), low crew requirement(the example designs are such), massed need for trade causing mega freighters and long repayment times for ships(not unrealistic if you assume low wear value, low interest rates and low risk to losing ships). |
07-26-2015, 09:43 PM | #3 |
Stick in the Mud
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Rural Utah
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Re: [SS] Cost of Hydrogen
Well, using GURPS Traveller Intestellar Wars for pricing:
Fuel is about $350/dTon. Freight is $700/dTon/parsec for major or minor routes, and $800/dTon/parsec along branch routes. If that helps at all.
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07-26-2015, 09:57 PM | #4 |
Untagged
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon
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Re: [SS] Cost of Hydrogen
I always assumed Hydrogen's cost was so high in SS, because in reality most easily accessible is locked in water. Getting it out takes energy that has its own added cost.
Traveller has power production that all but eliminates that hidden cost.
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07-26-2015, 10:32 PM | #5 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: [SS] Cost of Hydrogen
The cost of hydrogen is basically determined by the cost of producing and liquefying it; most of the time, the raw materials are quite cheap. As such, its price can realistically vary quite a lot depending on your tech assumptions.
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07-26-2015, 10:48 PM | #6 |
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Cowtown, Canada
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Re: [SS] Cost of Hydrogen
I use an advanced gas giant refining economy in my campaign, making hydrogen fairly cheap. The PCs are also mainly operating in a star system that specializes in gas mining, so fuel is *very* cheap in system.
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07-26-2015, 11:12 PM | #7 | ||
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Jeffersonville, Ind.
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Re: [SS] Cost of Hydrogen
Quote:
The real life price of liquid hydrogen (in 2002) was roughly $0.70/kg (roughly $650/ton) if processed on site and between $2.0-3.08/kg ($2,000 to $2,800/ton) if it has to be transported. Considering GURPS uses 2004 dollars and tries to base its prices on real life if at all possible this matches the value in Spaceships. I'd argue a science fiction spaceport probably produces it on site (real life spaceports do) and maybe go with $1,000/ton to represent profit and various fees and taxes, etc.
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07-26-2015, 11:30 PM | #8 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: [SS] Cost of Hydrogen
Producing hydrogen by electrolysis of water requires 285 kJ/mol or 142 GJ/ton or about 40 MWh, which is a couple thousand dollars at bulk electricity prices. Aqueous ammonia can be electrolyzed for a mere 27 GJ/ton; simple electrolysis won't work for methane and I'm not sure exactly what reactions are used. In space, I suspect icy asteroids containing ammonia ices are the easiest source of hydrogen.
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