GURPS Mars Attacks Supplements

[ericbsmith]

Originally Posted by maximara

How do we know they were "less popular" genre books?

They didn't get new editions like Space and Fantasy?

[maximara]

Originally Posted by PL Madeira

I think that one thing that made Mars Attacks sell less than expected was people just assuming that it is based on a 20 year old movie. But, with the exception of a text box with an optional Martian disadvantage of being weak to country music (lol), the setting doesn't have anything based on the movie.

The cards are online and the set comes off as a more detailed satire of the 1953 version of War of the Worlds with B to Z grade version of elements from movies such as Incredible Shrinking Man and Them thrown in.

You can see where the movie got a lot of its ideas and scenes in the cards set (and what didn't get included; like the giant insects didn't make the cut).

So we have a GURPS book based on a 50 year old card set which is likely only remembered thanks to a 20 year movie. As I said updating Atomic Horror and Mars for 4e would have been time (and money) better spent.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by ericbsmith

They didn't get new editions like Space and Fantasy?

Space was practically guaranteed to get an update as so many popular/nostalgic based settings are in space: Flash Gordon, Star Trek, Star Wars, Spaceship Troopers, Cowbow Beboop, and I could keep on going.

Regarding 4e Fantasy; it is a totally new book...not an update of 3e Fantasy.

Banestorm is the update of 3e Fantasy and the setting got a total make over so the Islamic countries don't come off like they are run by the Ayatollah Khomeini as they did in 1st edition Fantasy.

[ericbsmith]

Originally Posted by maximara

Regarding 4e Fantasy; it is a totally new book...not an update of 3e Fantasy.

It is and it isn't. It is what the original Fantasy was kind of intending to be, before it skewed off the side and spun off GURPS Magic and became a setting book for Yrth, which later got spun off into Banestorm. At any rate, Space, Horror, and Supers got new editions. Fantasy got a new edition/first real edition. If Mars or Atomic Horror didn't get new editions it's because their popularity wasn't there compared to what other books could be put out.

While Mars Attacks is not what I would consider an ideal GURPS book, it is a unique setting with a lot of artwork that was easy to grab with its own style. And artwork isn't a small consideration. Nor is the fact that this was probably part of the same deal that led to the dice game which came out at the same time.

[PL Madeira]

Originally Posted by maximara

So we have a GURPS book based on a 50 year old card set which is likely only remembered thanks to a 20 year movie. As I said updating Atomic Horror and Mars for 4e would have been time (and money) better spent.

Actually, the book is based on the 2013 set. So is based on a 5 year old card set.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by PL Madeira

Actually, the book is based on the 2013 set. So is based on a 5 year old card set.

It is kind of confusing because "In 2012 Topps celebrated 50 years of Mayhem with a reprint of the iconic 1963 MARS ATTACKS trading card set." and in 2013 Topps came out with the Mars Attacks: Invasion card set.

Based on the name you would think the book would be based on either the movie or the older card set.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by ericbsmith

If Mars or Atomic Horror didn't get new editions it's because their popularity wasn't there compared to what other books could be put out.

Considering that it took a kickstarter to have Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game see the light of day (which consolidated 5 of the books in the Dungeon Fantasy together...something badly needed) it would be more accurate to say they thought the popularity of Mars or Atomic Horror wasn't there.

Funny thing there. Before things fell though Fallout was going to use a slimmed down version of the GURPS system. Many of the themes in Atomic Horror fit Fallout like a glove.

[PL Madeira]

Originally Posted by maximara

It is kind of confusing because "In 2012 Topps celebrated 50 years of Mayhem with a reprint of the iconic 1963 MARS ATTACKS trading card set." and in 2013 Topps came out with the Mars Attacks: Invasion card set.

Based on the name you would think the book would be based on either the movie or the older card set.

Yeah, it is based on the Invasion set. It say so in the book's introduction. The Invasion set is "richer" in world building comparing to the original 1962 set.

[ericbsmith]

Originally Posted by maximara

Considering that it took a kickstarter to have Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game see the light of day (which consolidated 5 of the books in the Dungeon Fantasy together...something badly needed) it would be more accurate to say they thought the popularity of Mars or Atomic Horror wasn't there.

No matter how "badly" it was wanted by the die hard fans, sales are what drives a company. Considering that they've said that the sales of the Dungeon Fantasy RPG have fallen short of their hopes to the point where they're happy they cut their order down at the last minute (so they're not stuck with backstock), they're not planning on reprinting it, and aren't planning on doing any similar box sets. Given that, I'd say that the sales aren't there, and weren't there for this theoretical reprint/new edition of GURPS Mars or GURPS Atomic Horror.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by ericbsmith

No matter how "badly" it was wanted by the die hard fans, sales are what drives a company.

Sales alone do not drive a company. Classic example of that is TSR. Their individual lines sold insanely well but they were so fragmented that the ran into the "many buckets" problem and the company lost money.

As shows like Star Trek (original version; 3rd seadon) and Doctor Who (Colin Baker-Sylvester Mccoy era) demonstrate things can be manipulated so that something that should do well can't.

Originally Posted by ericbsmith

Considering that they've said that the sales of the Dungeon Fantasy RPG have fallen short of their hopes to the point where they're happy they cut their order down at the last minute (so they're not stuck with backstock), they're not planning on reprinting it, and aren't planning on doing any similar box sets.

That 'did not meet expectations' song and dance doesn't mean beans. If expectations were unrealistic based on the market and how the product was sold/marketed then of course sales wouldn't meet expectations.

So either the marketing department didn't have access to the needed channels, was incompetent, or the product was set up to fail.

Think about your average bookstore (not gaming store). D&D all over the place but GURPS...you are lucky if there are a handful of books.

Originally Posted by ericbsmith

Given that, I'd say that the sales aren't there, and weren't there for this theoretical reprint/new edition of GURPS Mars or GURPS Atomic Horror.

Given the kickstarter for Dungeon Fantasy made S176,450 of its target of $100,000 and Dungeon Fantasy clocks in at 28 "books" even though the first four are "out of print" (more on that in a moment) that doesn't appear to hold true.

Also how do you know the sales aren't there? Frank Baum was told by every publisher he went to that the sales weren't "there" for a book he wanted to publish. He wound up self publishing The Wonderful Wizard of Oz and the book was an immediate profitable success.

Then there is the whole issue of the Long Tail. Steve Jackson Games got on the the PDF publishing train relatively early but it allows them to have a huge "library" of books without having the cost of dealing with physical copies (unless someone asks for a Print on Demand version).

Funny thing there. Several licensed properties, such as Conan and Castle Falkenstein are still available as Pdfs. So they make enough money to have a pdf of the 3e book around (ie keep the license which costs) but not enough to bring it in line with 4e? Uh, how does that work?