Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-20-2016, 01:36 PM   #1
wmervine4
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Noblesville, Indiana, USA
Default [Pyramid 3/77] CER Calculations

So I'm looking through the article in Pyramid 3/77 about how to calculate the Combat Effectiveness Rating (actually I'm trying to make a calculator in Excel to simplify the process) and I have some questions about how the calculations are intended to work.

1. The Offensive Rating/Affliction section says that for afflictions that cause irritating or incapacitating conditions, you should add a value equal to 1/5 of its worth as an enhancement to Affliction. The Boneflower example at the end doesn't help because it just shows the value is 12, but gives no indication as to how the Spines ability was built (and the math on building this both as an Affliction or an Innate Attack based on the stats it does show doesn't fit, unless I am missing something or going about this the wrong way). Based on the wording, I would think the way this works is like this. I take Affliction 1 [10] and add Terrible Pain [+60%], then the value as an enhancement on Affliction would be 6, 1/5 of which is 1.2 which rounds down to 1. Is that right?

2. The Protective Rating/Damage Resistance section says that DR that protects against a specific threat and DR with the Hardened modifier add to the score for DR; however, it doesn't specify whether or not these additions should be added to the DR number that is divided by 4 for head/arm/leg/torso DR. Should the modifier be added before or after summing up the armor on major locations and dividing by 4? If before, should the modifier for Hardened be added individually to every major location's DR to which it applies?

Any insight anyone could provide into how these calculations work would be very helpful.
wmervine4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2016, 02:14 PM   #2
Pseudonym
 
Pseudonym's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Default Re: [Pyramid 3/77] CER Calculations

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmervine4 View Post
So I'm looking through the article in Pyramid 3/77 about how to calculate the Combat Effectiveness Rating (actually I'm trying to make a calculator in Excel to simplify the process) and I have some questions about how the calculations are intended to work.

1. The Offensive Rating/Affliction section says that for afflictions that cause irritating or incapacitating conditions, you should add a value equal to 1/5 of its worth as an enhancement to Affliction. The Boneflower example at the end doesn't help because it just shows the value is 12, but gives no indication as to how the Spines ability was built (and the math on building this both as an Affliction or an Innate Attack based on the stats it does show doesn't fit, unless I am missing something or going about this the wrong way). Based on the wording, I would think the way this works is like this. I take Affliction 1 [10] and add Terrible Pain [+60%], then the value as an enhancement on Affliction would be 6, 1/5 of which is 1.2 which rounds down to 1. Is that right?
For number one, it looks like you take the 60%, change it to 60, and you divide that by 5, for a total of 12...

Not sure on the second. I would think that applying the enhancements/limitations to the specific areas prior to averaging would be the most accurate.
__________________
Blog Running Games on Tuesday (online). Playing Sunday.
Pseudonym is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2016, 02:18 PM   #3
Anders
 
Anders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Default Re: [Pyramid 3/77] CER Calculations

Casts *summon Ghostdancer*.
__________________
“When you arise in the morning think of what a privilege it is to be alive, to think, to enjoy, to love ...” Marcus Aurelius
Anders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2016, 03:09 PM   #4
Christopher R. Rice
 
Christopher R. Rice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Portsmouth, VA, USA
Default Re: [Pyramid 3/77] CER Calculations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders View Post
Casts *summon Ghostdancer*.
*appears from the Very Cozy Nest at the End of Reality*


Quote:
Originally Posted by wmervine4 View Post
1. The Offensive Rating/Affliction section says that for afflictions that cause irritating or incapacitating conditions, you should add a value equal to 1/5 of its worth as an enhancement to Affliction. The Boneflower example at the end doesn't help because it just shows the value is 12, but gives no indication as to how the Spines ability was built (and the math on building this both as an Affliction or an Innate Attack based on the stats it does show doesn't fit, unless I am missing something or going about this the wrong way). Based on the wording, I would think the way this works is like this. I take Affliction 1 [10] and add Terrible Pain [+60%], then the value as an enhancement on Affliction would be 6, 1/5 of which is 1.2 which rounds down to 1. Is that right?
No, you literally take the value of the enhancement as a modifier (e.g., +60% for Terrible Pain) and divide that by 5 then treat that number as a modifier to CER. So +60% / 5 = 12% or +12 to CER.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmervine4 View Post
2. The Protective Rating/Damage Resistance section says that DR that protects against a specific threat and DR with the Hardened modifier add to the score for DR; however, it doesn't specify whether or not these additions should be added to the DR number that is divided by 4 for head/arm/leg/torso DR. Should the modifier be added before or after summing up the armor on major locations and dividing by 4? If before, should the modifier for Hardened be added individually to every major location's DR to which it applies?
The first is straight up: Figure DR normally and then add a bonus if you have Hardened. For the second I'd simply say "If you have Hardened in any location, give the +5 bonus." If you want a little more detail you can use a more optional method: Each location with Hardened gives +1.25 CER per level of Hardened per location which has it. So if all locations have it it gives +5 CER. If two have it grants +2.5 CER. In all cases, round up.
__________________
My Twitter
My w23 Stuff
My Blog

Latest GURPS Book: Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Thieves
Latest TFT Book: The Sunken Library

Become a Patron!
Christopher R. Rice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2016, 04:39 PM   #5
wmervine4
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Noblesville, Indiana, USA
Default Re: [Pyramid 3/77] CER Calculations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostdancer View Post
No, you literally take the value of the enhancement as a modifier (e.g., +60% for Terrible Pain) and divide that by 5 then treat that number as a modifier to CER. So +60% / 5 = 12% or +12 to CER.
Okay, now I understand my confusion. The Boneflower example at the end has Innate Attack (Impaling) that has a damage score higher than its score for Affliction, so it's only worth 1/5th because the damage is stronger than the affliction part of the attack. If there was no damage associated with Terrible Pain, then the Affliction score would be 12 (60 / 5 = 12), but since the Innate Attack has a damage score worth 29, that beats the Affliction's score, so the Affliction only counts for 1/5th of its normal value thereby reducing it to 3 (12 / 5 = 2.4, which rounds up to 3). This makes sense now!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostdancer View Post
The first is straight up: Figure DR normally and then add a bonus if you have Hardened. For the second I'd simply say "If you have Hardened in any location, give the +5 bonus." If you want a little more detail you can use a more optional method: Each location with Hardened gives +1.25 CER per level of Hardened per location which has it. So if all locations have it it gives +5 CER. If two have it grants +2.5 CER. In all cases, round up.
So to make sure I'm clearly understanding this, if I have a creature with natural DR 2 that has Hardened 1, and it is wearing DR 4 on its head and torso only, its score would be 9 calculated as follows:

(6 + 2 + 2 + 6) / 4 = 4 + 5 = 9

I feel much better about this now. Thank you everyone, especially Ghostdancer, for the quick replies!
wmervine4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2016, 04:51 PM   #6
Christopher R. Rice
 
Christopher R. Rice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Portsmouth, VA, USA
Default Re: [Pyramid 3/77] CER Calculations

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmervine4 View Post
Okay, now I understand my confusion. The Boneflower example at the end has Innate Attack (Impaling) that has a damage score higher than its score for Affliction, so it's only worth 1/5th because the damage is stronger than the affliction part of the attack. If there was no damage associated with Terrible Pain, then the Affliction score would be 12 (60 / 5 = 12), but since the Innate Attack has a damage score worth 29, that beats the Affliction's score, so the Affliction only counts for 1/5th of its normal value thereby reducing it to 3 (12 / 5 = 2.4, which rounds up to 3). This makes sense now!
I wish there was a less confusing way to have done this - but I have a word count I must work with and that was the best way to get in that particular aspect of combat while keeping a sane word limit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wmervine4 View Post
So to make sure I'm clearly understanding this, if I have a creature with natural DR 2 that has Hardened 1, and it is wearing DR 4 on its head and torso only, its score would be 9 calculated as follows:

(6 + 2 + 2 + 6) / 4 = 4 + 5 = 9
Correct.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wmervine4 View Post
I feel much better about this now. Thank you everyone, especially Ghostdancer, for the quick replies!
Sure. Sorry there was confusion.
__________________
My Twitter
My w23 Stuff
My Blog

Latest GURPS Book: Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Thieves
Latest TFT Book: The Sunken Library

Become a Patron!
Christopher R. Rice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2016, 02:18 PM   #7
wmervine4
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Noblesville, Indiana, USA
Default Re: [Pyramid 3/77] CER Calculations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pseudonym View Post
For number one, it looks like you take the 60%, change it to 60, and you divide that by 5, for a total of 12...
I considered that, but in the example Boneflower at the end of the article, it shows the value of its Affliction as 3, and shows the math as 12 x 1/5, but it doesn't explain where the 12 comes from. Terrible Pain is worth 60% as an enhancement to Affliction, but you'd have to divide that by 5 twice (60 / 5 = 12 / 5 = 2.4, rounding up to 3) for that to work, but the text just says to divide the enhancement value by 5, hence my confusion.
wmervine4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2016, 02:54 PM   #8
Pseudonym
 
Pseudonym's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Default Re: [Pyramid 3/77] CER Calculations

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmervine4 View Post
I considered that, but in the example Boneflower at the end of the article, it shows the value of its Affliction as 3, and shows the math as 12 x 1/5, but it doesn't explain where the 12 comes from. Terrible Pain is worth 60% as an enhancement to Affliction, but you'd have to divide that by 5 twice (60 / 5 = 12 / 5 = 2.4, rounding up to 3) for that to work, but the text just says to divide the enhancement value by 5, hence my confusion.
Looking at the text much more carefully this time, it says the factor is 12/5 = 3, so I think you are correct. But now I'm confused! Are we dividing by 25 because the attack does affliction and damage at the same time and the damage score (29) is greater than the affliction score (12), thus invoking the rule from the affliction section that says to divide the smaller by 1/5?

If for giggles, affliction was 39, and damage was still 29, would we divide damage by 5, and say it is 6 instead, and leave affliction at 39?
__________________
Blog Running Games on Tuesday (online). Playing Sunday.
Pseudonym is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2016, 03:04 PM   #9
Anders
 
Anders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Default Re: [Pyramid 3/77] CER Calculations

PM Ghostdancer. He wrote the article.
__________________
“When you arise in the morning think of what a privilege it is to be alive, to think, to enjoy, to love ...” Marcus Aurelius
Anders is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cer, dungeon fanasy, pyramid #3/77, pyramid 3/77

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.