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Old 07-13-2014, 10:28 PM   #111
David Johansen
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Default Re: [DF] I can haz gunpowderz?

Of course if you can haz gunpowderz then so can theyz.

Are you sure you want that? Kobolds with petards? Orcs with match locks. Dragons with barricades of powder barrels? Mummies with powder charges and nails in their body cavity? Demons with mini-guns and grenades?

I've occasionally allowed guns to alchemists. But generally I think it just ups the arms race too much.
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Old 07-14-2014, 05:36 AM   #112
Mateus
 
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Location: Curitiba - PR (Brazil)
Default Re: [DF] I can haz gunpowderz?

Well, we have the Musketeer template and the Demolisher (both from Pyramid).

In my actual game I do have one Musketeer in the group. My biggest problem was not that firearms gave him and edge, it was how to make a firearms user competitive.

First I used the alternate Guns Skills from Pyramid, so we only have 2 skills and not a dozen. Second we are now using the rule that guns cannot be dodged. Third we need Gun Fu =). He reload his weapons in something like 3 turns, but I admit that I am giving him a hand cause it is a lot of trouble for only 3dp++ with a musket.

Still I think that he is underpowered, also because shoots and particulary special shoots, are expensive.
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Old 07-14-2014, 08:06 AM   #113
Tinman
 
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Default Re: [DF] I can haz gunpowderz?

TBC/Mr Riggsby: Thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mateus View Post
Well, we have the Musketeer template and the Demolisher (both from Pyramid).

In my actual game I do have one Musketeer in the group. My biggest problem was not that firearms gave him and edge, it was how to make a firearms user competitive.

First I used the alternate Guns Skills from Pyramid, so we only have 2 skills and not a dozen. Second we are now using the rule that guns cannot be dodged. Third we need Gun Fu =). He reload his weapons in something like 3 turns, but I admit that I am giving him a hand cause it is a lot of trouble for only 3dp++ with a musket.
The basic musket in DF is 4dpi++ and if you let him 'over load' the musket (the rules are in the musketeer article) it goes up to 5dpi++.

Also one of the options on the musketeer template is weapon master. If he's skilled with spear &/or staff I'd have him take WM: Musket & apply it to using the bayonette & the musket as a staff.
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Old 07-14-2014, 09:08 AM   #114
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: [DF] I can haz gunpowderz?

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Originally Posted by David Johansen View Post
Kobolds with petards?
Petards are for sieges, which I don't think kobolds are going to participate in many of. Gunpowder is great for traps, however, and I'd imagine kobolds would make as heavy use of it as they could afford (kobolds may lack the technical skills necessary to make their own, so they'd need to raid - nobody's going to sell to them - likely heavily-armed stockpiles to get it).

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Originally Posted by David Johansen View Post
Orcs with match locks.
They'd have the same procurement issues as kobolds (and are even less likely to be able to make it themselves), but if they've got the dakka, who am I to deny them?

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Originally Posted by David Johansen View Post
Dragons with barricades of powder barrels?
"How thoughtful - the dragon left us his spare key!"

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Originally Posted by David Johansen View Post
Mummies with powder charges and nails in their body cavity?
The necromancer's answer to Doomchildren, naturally.

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Originally Posted by David Johansen View Post
Demons with mini-guns and grenades?
Mini-guns are a far cry from the TL3+1^ of DF, but grenades are perfectly doable. I'd imagine gunpowder doesn't keep too well down in Hell, though - better to just toss Doomchildren at them.

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Originally Posted by David Johansen View Post
I've occasionally allowed guns to alchemists. But generally I think it just ups the arms race too much.
I don't have the needed Pyramid article (although from comments, it sounds like gunpowder there is more expensive than my assumptions), but I modified Ve2 for DF weapons and, at least on paper, they don't seem too terribly overpowered. For my solo DF campaign, I've designed a Lizardman "Musketeer" (an Archer, from Henchmen, with firearm rather than bow skills/Advantages, and the Veteran lens) who uses a breechloading rifled musket. It weighs around 15 lb (o.O), has Malf 15, does 4d pi++, has Range 60/600, and has Acc 5 (which is probably too high, but Ve2 gives me Acc 10 and 3e Acc is typically 2x 4e Acc). Rate of Fire is the big penalty here, at 1(10), although old Grom drops this all the way down to 1(3) with Fast-Draw, thanks to using paper cartridges and having the Quick Reload Perk. Compared to a "typical" (ST 13, Weapon Master, and Strongbow) Scout with an Acc 3 Reflex Bow, he's got better damage (4d pi++ vs 1d+6=2d+2 imp) and Acc, but his weapon is far heavier, has a 10% chance of jamming, fires far more slowly (once every 5 rounds with +5 from Aim or once every 4 otherwise, compared to the Scout's once every 2 rounds with +3 from Acc and once per round with +3 from Acc and -1 from Quick Shooting), is noisy and gives away his position, has less Range, and is pretty much only good for firing lead shot (so no bodkin equivalents, meteoric iron - it'd destroy the rifling! - and so forth). It's also only good for 5 shots before it drops to Malf 14 (15% jamming), or 10 before it drops to Malf 13 (25% jamming) and Acc 4, while the Scout can keep firing so long as he's got arrows (and if he sprung for a Cornucopia Quiver, that's a non-issue). To get it back up to Malf 15, he's got to spend 4 minutes cleaning the weapon and reapplying lubrication (and at the end of every day the weapon sees action, he needs to burn an hour cleaning it properly). I foresee Grom getting more use out of the attached bayonet than the rifle itself, although that first shot's a doozy.
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