Explain me Hook technique, please.

[vsh]

Technique's description is extremly unclear.
1) What penalties does victim get? Can he move when succesfully hooked? If yes, can you prevent him? Can he use weapon in hooked arm?
2) Does your weapon become unready when you fail or release your foe? Does unbalanced weapon become unready? What if weapon's got both balanced and unbalanced attacks, like dueling bill?
3)"Hooking a weapon is an attempt to disarm; see p. B401." Is it funny way to say that Hook against a weapon results in disarming your foe? Or that you should resolve hooking a weapon using B401 (rolling base skill or Disarming technique), but ignore -2 penalty on first roll and get +2 bonus to the second?
If you roll Hook to hook a weapon, do you benefit from high disarming technique?
3)Again, does your weapon become unready after hooking a weapon?

[Kale]

Against torsos or limbs hook is basically a fancy version of Armed Grapple. Treat it the same except I think there's a leverage bonus due to the hook. Also if your hook is sharp you can inflict damage.

Against weapons, it is a Disarm, with bonuses for the leverage the hook on your weapon gives you. I would say it unreadies your weapon to do this since you are using your weapon to yank a weapon out of a foe's hand. Treat it like an attack for unreadying purposes. For an axe it would be unable to parry that turn (since it was used to 'attack'). For a polearm it would be fully unready.

[vsh]

Originally Posted by Kale

Against torsos or limbs hook is basically a fancy version of Armed Grapple. Treat it the same except I think there's a leverage bonus due to the hook. Also if your hook is sharp you can inflict damage.

You can only Hook "foe’s head, limb, weapon, or shield". Also, it isn't Armed Grapple, since you can pin with Armed Grapple but you can't generally pin hooked foe, though you can pin with sasumata (MA 224).

Against weapons, it is a Disarm, with bonuses for the leverage the hook on your weapon gives you.

The question was, do you use Hook(Polearm) or Disarming(Polearm) when disarming with the bill. If you can use both, what is the difference between them?

I would say it unreadies your weapon to do this since you are using your weapon to yank a weapon out of a foe's hand. Treat it like an attack for unreadying purposes. For an axe it would be unable to parry that turn (since it was used to 'attack'). For a polearm it would be fully unready.

Good point, but, I guess, unofficial? Also, what if your weapon has multiple attack options with different "unreading", like halberd?

[Kale]

Originally Posted by vsh

You can only Hook "foe’s head, limb, weapon, or shield". Also, it isn't Armed Grapple, since you can pin with Armed Grapple but you can't generally pin hooked foe, though you can pin with sasumata (MA 224).

I had a chance to get to my book. It's not a standard grapple; you can only target head/neck/limbs/shield. You CAN bear an opponent to the ground after a hook; basically you are dragging them to a kneeling position:

Originally Posted by GURPS Martial Arts

Roll a Quick Contest of ST. If you win, you drag your opponent into a kneeling posture; if he’s kneeling or crouching, he falls down. He can’t stand until he breaks free or you release him. If you lose or tie, nothing happens. If
you critically fail, you drop your weapon! Your foe may try to break free normally on his turn.

I'd say that if you hook a limb or a shield though, treat it the same as an armed grapple on that limb. That is to say your foe can't use his arm or shield while you have it held with the hook unless he breaks free. So its 'sort-of an armed grapple' but with some special effects.

Originally Posted by vsh

The question was, do you use Hook(Polearm) or Disarming(Polearm) when disarming with the bill. If you can use both, what is the difference between them?

With Disarming you are whacking your foe's weapon really hard to quickly knock it out of their hand. With Hook you are trying to pull it out of their hand and get a bonus because the hook gives you more leverage. If you hook his arm instead of his weapon you can try to pull him to the ground, and his arm (and the weapon it is holding) cannot be used until he breaks free.

Originally Posted by vsh

Also, what if your weapon has multiple attack options with different "unreading", like halberd?

Generally a hook is a bit like a thrust, so use that attack method mainly. You jab the hook past your target, then pull back. I think we need some more 'official' rules for the technique though. For now you will just have to houserule it as best as you can, using common sense. For instance, I'd argue a defensive grip would only let you hook on a successful parry. That is to say, if you have a defensive grip on your halberd and somebody attacks you with a sword that you parry, then go ahead and make a hook role against the sword. Otherwise a hook YOU initiate is an attack similar to a strike, so wouldn't work easily with defensive grips. I wouldn't allow hooking the legs, for instance, with a defensive grip on a halberd. You MIGHT be able to hook an arm or weapon, but I would apply a penalty for the grip similar to penalties on attacks for a defensive grip. There are so many ways to use this technique that you will just have to apply common sense as necessary.
I'm playing an axe user in a fantasy campaign right now and hook has been a useful move for him. @:-)

[vsh]

I guess you're right, considering Hook a limited armed grappling, but that's never written in rules.

Originally Posted by Kale

With Disarming you are whacking your foe's weapon really hard to quickly knock it out of their hand. With Hook you are trying to pull it out of their hand and get a bonus because the hook gives you more leverage.

I'm not quite sure. Disarming(weapon) means using whatever you can to disarm, be it whacking, cathing with sai, fencing with rapier etc. It might as well be pulling with hook.

I think we need some more 'official' rules for the technique though.

You're right. Let's just hope for Kromm to appear.

That is to say, if you have a defensive grip on your halberd and somebody attacks you with a sword that you parry, then go ahead and make a hook role against the sword.

That's more like a counterattack IMO.

I wouldn't allow hooking the legs, for instance, with a defensive grip on a halberd.

You can hold halberd downside-up. I was said that's surprisingly effective stance.

[Joseph Paul]

There are some variations for controlling your opponents weapon. You can catch his weaopn in the crotch formed by a point or hook and the blade of your weapon and then push their weapon around. It can be pushed off line or down to the ground. If the opponent pulls the weapon back to clear it he is opening himself up to thrusts and possibly swings or even an attack by a secondary weapon like a dagger. Thoughts on using Hook with this?

[vsh]

Raising post in hope of official explanation.

[Kale]

I've been playing an axe-wielding character in our latest fantasy game. Due to the limited rules on hook we had to improvise a few of our own, which are basically extensions of the existing rules in Martial Arts and disarming in the Basic Set.

On a parry, an axe user can use the hook technique against the weapon he last parried on his next turn to disarm. Thus, an axe which is normally unbalanced can parry and 'attack' on turns where the hook is used against the parried weapon.
I think it should be possible to combine the hook and beat techniques fairly well too. In this case the hook would be used to draw a parried or 'attack' hooked weapon off line. Hopefully an 'official' voice will give us some pointers on this. Anybody reading this care to chime in on 'advanced hooking'? @:-)

[vsh]

On 18 Jan 2010 at 5:19, vsh @ Steve Jackson Games Forums wrote:

> 1) What penalties does victim get? Is he grappled? Can he move when
> succesfully hooked? If yes, can you prevent him? Can he use weapon in
> hooked arm?

The victim counts as grappled. He has the standard penalties for being
grappled, and as when grappled, he cannot move away or use the targeted
body part to attack or defend. He may still try to break free, as from
any grapple.

> 2) Does your weapon become unready when you fail or release your foe?
> Does unbalanced weapon become unready? What if weapon's got both
> balanced and unbalanced attacks, like dueling bill?

Hooking never unreadies your weapon; it simply means that you can't use
the weapon for a different attack, or a parry, on the same turn, as the
write-up says. This remains true whether you fail, release your foe, or
he breaks free; no special note on the subject means there's nothing to
say. Observe that no weapon on the weapon table has a double-dagger on
the ST entry on the same line that notes "Hook." Only weapons with that
mark on ST become unready when attacking.

However, if you *critically* fail while trying to pull somebody off-
balance, you drop your weapon. That is a special rule, and noted in the
technique.

> 3)"Hooking a weapon is an attempt to disarm; see p. B401." Does that
> mean that Hook against a weapon results in disarming your foe? Or
> that you should resolve hooking a weapon using B401 (rolling base
> skill or Disarming technique), but ignore -2 penalty on first roll
> and get +2 bonus to the second? If you roll Hook to hook a weapon,
> do you benefit from high disarming technique?

That means you should resolve hooking a weapon using p. B401, rolling
against Hook, and ignoring -2 on the first roll and getting an extra +2
on the second. Your Disarming technique is irrelevant here; it's a use
of the Hook technique.

SP.

--
Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch, GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games

[Kale]

Hooray for official answers!