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Old 08-07-2015, 04:12 PM   #1
Laddie
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Default Knightmare Chess: another question about Chaos, Knightmare, & Think Again

All 3 of these canceling cards say that if my opponent used a card, he may take it back. But suppose that my opponent chooses not to take his card back:

1. Is the card simply discarded without effect? Or, if it was a card unrelated to the board state (like Second Sight), would it still take its effect, since my opponent declined to take it back?
2. Having declined to retrieve his first card, can my opponent then play a DIFFERENT card on that same turn? Or is he precluded from doing so, having already "played" the first (canceled) card?

I'm well aware that a player is only allowed to "play" one card per turn, but I wasn't entirely sure if a canceled (and subsequently abandoned) card still counts as "played." After all, the FAQ technically does allow for two card plays on a single turn in the following situation: when my played card is canceled by Knightmare and I do take it back in hand, I am allowed to play a second card that turn. So, in that case at least, the original canceled card does not count as "played". Is the same true if I choose not to take my card back in hand?

Help is greatly appreciated. :)

Last edited by Laddie; 08-09-2015 at 10:13 AM. Reason: Had a point of clarification
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Old 01-03-2022, 08:10 AM   #2
lucienpsmith
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Default Re: Knightmare Chess: another question about Chaos, Knightmare, & Think Again

CHAOS/THINK AGAIN/KNIGHTMARE can be played at the end of your opponent’s turns (see TURNS, below). It only affects an actual MOVE (see definition above) on the game board. If a regular card specified a move, that move is cancelled. If there is more than one move involved in a turn, then whomever played CHAOS must specify which move he is cancelling.
As long as the same MOVE does not occur:
  • A played card could be played again
  • A different card could be played

Example 1: White plays HEIR or MEDUSA (play this card instead of making a regular move). Black plays CHAOS and has no effect since there was no move made on white’s turn.

Example 2: White moves his queen, then plays FATAL ATTRACTION (play this card after your move). Black plays CHAOS. White takes back his move and takes FATAL ATTRACTION back into his hand. White can do any of the following, as long as the same move does not occur on his turn:
  • Make a different move and replay FATAL ATTRACTION
  • Make a different move and play a different after-move card
  • Play a before-move card and make a different move
  • Make no move, and play a replace-move card. This replace-move card must not result in the same displacement(move) that was cancelled by CHAOS.

Example 3: White plays COUNTERSPELL (play this card before your move). Black plays CHAOS. White takes back his move and takes COUNTERSPELL back into his hand. White and can do any of the following, as long as the same move(displacement) does not occur on his turn:
  • Replay COUNTERSPELL and make a different move
  • Play a different before-move card, and make a different move
  • Make a different move, and play a different after-move card
  • Make no move, and play a replace-move card. This replace-move card must not result in the same move that was cancelled by CHAOS.

Example 4: FREEZE is in play as a continuing effect. It ends at the end of the move that results in a check, or at the resolution of a card play that results in a King being in check. White makes a move that results in check (FREEZE is removed), and then white plays the after move card FIREBALL. At the end of white’s turn, black plays CHAOS. The FREEZE remains removed, but the usual proceeds wrpt to how CHAOS is played out (see above).

Turns
The following illustrates game play, and when cards can be played. The only exception to card play is “DOUBLE AGENTS”, which can be played at any time but must adhere to the one card per turn rule.
1. Start of game
2. Each player draws 5 cards per rules
3. Before White’s turn
4. Beginning of White’s turn
1. Before White’s move (White can play a card)
2. White’s move (White can play a card instead of White’s regular move) (captures occur at this point)
3. After White’s move (White can play a card; Black can play a card)
5. End of White’s turn (White can play a card)
6. After turn (CHAOS, KNIGHTMARE, THINK AGAIN, ESCAPE, BOG, DOUBLE AGENTS, FOG OF WAR, SECOND SIGHT, SLIPPERY GROUND, TAKE BACK THIS EVIL DAY, TOLL)
7. Before Black’s turn (White can discard and replace a card)
8. Beginning of Black’s turn
1. Before Black’s move (Black can play a card)
2. Black’s move (Black can play a card instead of their regular move) (captures occur here)
3. After Black’s move (Black can play a card; White can play a card)
4. At the end of Black’s turn (White can play things like CHAOS here)
9. End of Black’s turn
10. After Black’s Turn (CHAOS, KNIGHTMARE, THINK AGAIN, ESCAPE, BOG, DOUBLE AGENTS, FOG OF WAR, SECOND SIGHT, SLIPPERY GROUND, TAKE BACK THIS EVIL DAY, TOLL)
11. Before White’s turn (Black can discard and replace a card)
12. Beginning of White’s turn
1. Before White’s move (White can play a card)
2. White’s move (White can play a card instead of White’s regular move)
3. After White’s move (White can play a card; Black opponent can play a card)
13. End of White’s turn
14. After turn (CHAOS, KNIGHTMARE, THINK AGAIN, ESCAPE, BOG, DOUBLE AGENTS, FOG OF WAR, SECOND SIGHT, SLIPPERY GROUND, TAKE BACK THIS EVIL DAY, TOLL)
15. Before White's turn (White can discard and replace a card)




Quote:
Originally Posted by Laddie View Post
All 3 of these canceling cards say that if my opponent used a card, he may take it back. But suppose that my opponent chooses not to take his card back:

1. Is the card simply discarded without effect? Or, if it was a card unrelated to the board state (like Second Sight), would it still take its effect, since my opponent declined to take it back?
2. Having declined to retrieve his first card, can my opponent then play a DIFFERENT card on that same turn? Or is he precluded from doing so, having already "played" the first (canceled) card?

I'm well aware that a player is only allowed to "play" one card per turn, but I wasn't entirely sure if a canceled (and subsequently abandoned) card still counts as "played." After all, the FAQ technically does allow for two card plays on a single turn in the following situation: when my played card is canceled by Knightmare and I do take it back in hand, I am allowed to play a second card that turn. So, in that case at least, the original canceled card does not count as "played". Is the same true if I choose not to take my card back in hand?

Help is greatly appreciated. :)
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