chance of taking fall damage using Drop Kick?

[Plane]

I just watched the footage of a guy dropkicking Arnold Schwarzenegger in the back during a visit to South Africa to raise awareness of the popularity of Lamborghinis and it looked like a pretty rough landing. I think if most people tried doing a drop kick on someone they'd probably land hard themselves. Especially if you're aiming it up at the torso of a tall guy instead of at a lower target like the thigh/knee/shin.

GURPS Martial Arts page 70 says "you immediately fall down" and even if you take the cinematic option of landing on your feet (Acrobatics minus 5) "a miss results in a fall".

To cover people who don't land on their feet but know how to brace themselves for the impact, would it make sense to allow the Breakfall technique to prevent it, and in this case the guy who dropkicked Arnold failed his Breakfall technique roll?

I think if you're dropkicking upward at higher targets there should probably be a higher chance of landing on your head or arms, whereas if you're dropkicking someone in the leg or foot there's probably less of a chance of that. In the case of breakfall attempts, even if you fail to prevent damage entirely, it seems like in this case you might still manage to take some of the impact with your arms, which is probably preferably to taking it on the face. If you could spread out the damage, the difference between 2 damage to skull (no damage, due to DR) and 1 (4 injury) and 2 (8 injury) is pretty significant.

[Refplace]

Breakfall sounds good to me. Though it seems harder than if your falling normally or from a sweep so I'd likely assess a penalty. Maybe how much you moved by?

[Plane]

I was actually thinking of giving it a +2 bonus (like against a Telegraphic Attack) since you knew the fall was coming, but in that case only if the character opts to forgoe the chance to roll DX-5 to land on feet, because if you attempt that you believe you might succeed. Someone who doesn't try to land on their feet and just focuses on their breakfalling should have a leg up on those who are trying 2 things at once (which conveniently enough is usually a -2)

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Plane

I was actually thinking of giving it a +2 bonus...

Someone grabs my arm, I know the throw is coming. Don't make the breakfall any easier.

[Gumby Bush]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

Someone grabs my arm, I know the throw is coming. Don't make the breakfall any easier.

It does if that's all you're doing (e.g., they're demonstrating the technique on you). If it's in a fight, then yeah: you're still likely defending or something. Should probably treat that as AOD (Breakfall), though, and possibly benefiting from their doing a Telegraphic Attack, in which case it wouldn't benefit the drop-kick breakfall (nicely, the above benefits add up to +4, which is as we might expect for low-stress usage).

I agree with assessing a penalty, at best, for the case at hand. As I understand it (granted, I haven't done much with them), the dropkick works by sending your momentum downward with force. dissipating that momentum should be hard.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Gumby Bush

As I understand it (granted, I haven't done much with them), the dropkick works by sending your momentum downward with force. dissipating that momentum should be hard.

Actually it sends your momentum sideways, and as long as you aren't dropkicking the T-101 (or a wall), leaves you either falling from the kick straight down or slightly away.

The guy in the video propelled himself away from Arnie because he weighs a small fraction of Arnies weight* and he probably 'failed' his dropkick roll* against Arnie...


* Remember it's a Slam attack, not a kicking attack.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

Someone grabs my arm, I know the throw is coming. Don't make the breakfall any easier.

I suppose not, though it would make a Breakfall-based Parry easier (Technical Grappling 35)

Originally Posted by evileeyore

The guy in the video propelled himself away from Arnie because he weighs a small fraction of Arnies weight* and he probably 'failed' his dropkick roll* against Arnie...

* Remember it's a Slam attack, not a kicking attack.

He successfully hit him, so I don't think he failed.

Dropkicks have a reach of 2 (more than a kick's reach of 1) in addition to whatever you move, so maybe if you do a close-range dropkick from same or 1 hex instead of 2 you should roll knockback against yourself as well?

Arnold did get propelled but then he hit someone in front of him which I think stopped him. I'm not really sure if that happens when you collide with someone you're knocked into in gurps terms or not.

I think I remember Combat Writ Large had some rules about keeping going if you Slam into someone small enough but otherwise would stop, may apply to accidental collisions too when you're knocked back or do an overrun on a dodged/missing Slam?

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Plane

He successfully hit him, so I don't think he failed.

By failed, I mean he rolled really poorly on his Slam damage compared to Arnie, so poorly he took knockback.

[Plane]

Oh right, B371. Where would you apply damage to the attacker though, his feet? That's the only part that makes contact... Seems like that could easily cripple someone.

Does anyone kinda think maybe the damage should only apply for knockback purposes and for determining whether or not a Drop Kick hurts your feet maybe we should just use the usual rules for kicking (1 HP per 5 damage when hitting DR 3 or higher) ?

Reading that reminds me you don't suffer the -4 for Move and Attacks for Slams, guess that applies to Drop Kicks too?

Flying Tackle seems a lot better than Drop Kick since it gets a +4 on top of usual Slam, and it only says "end up lying down" not "fall" so there isn't any indication you'd take fall damage like with a drop kick...

All Drop Kick has going for it is the extra +1 to reach (since Flying Tackle gives a +1, Slams I think are probably Close-range by default) and +2 (+3 with boots) to damage. This is already kinda offset by preventing you from dodging for an entire turn, which normal slams/tackles/pounces don't do.