PC Races of Middle Earth

[tbone]

Originally Posted by khorboth

Woses are the primitive men in the wild parts of Eastern Rohan and/or Northern Gondor. It's a little vague.

Yeah, I know vaguely of them, but I don't recall ever hearing their eyes mentioned. I wonder whether that's Tolkien, or whether ICE was in the business of adding details like that.

Either way, thanks for the info!

[Stormcrow]

Originally Posted by Rupert

Hobbits mature later and live longer than modern Humans.

It hasn't been made clear to me that they physically mature later. Their coming of age is 33, but that might just be a cultural milestone rather than a biological one. Their tweens are when they are said to be irresponsible, and real-world human tweens can certainly be considered so. I don't think, for instance, that Pippin, at age 28 during The Lord of the Rings, was physically the equivalent of a 15-year-old human. I think he was physically the equivalent of a 28-year-old human, but his society considers him not yet a responsible adult.

[khorboth]

Originally Posted by Rupert

Hobbits mature later and live longer than modern Humans. They are probably good for a level (or half-level if you go in for those) of Extended Lifespan.

You have Dwarves starting to age at about 200, and dying by 300 or so. In The Hobbit Thorin & co. often mutter "if I were a century younger", which to me implies that they are active adults for many centuries, not just one or two.

Excellent point with the Dwarves. I think another level of lifespan is in order. I'll update the template.

Bilbo at 111 was remarkably old, and at 130 was unheard of. Definitely older than typical Men, but even a single level would put Hobbits into the 140s easily. As Stormcrow pointed out, the slow maturity is probably cultural as well. Without half-levels, I figure it's best just to hand-wave the thing as minor. No need to charge a point for something that's probably not going to come up.

[khorboth]

Originally Posted by tbone

Yeah, I know vaguely of them, but I don't recall ever hearing their eyes mentioned. I wonder whether that's Tolkien, or whether ICE was in the business of adding details like that.

Either way, thanks for the info!

I played a LOT of MERP in my teens. Sometimes, I get confused about what is in cannon and what is in the RPG. I can't actually think of where the eyes were mentioned in the novels. Maybe it was another of the weird things they invented in the RPG. There were lots.

[Phantasm]

I'd give Hobbits Longevity and a note stating that those 18-33 have Social Stigma (Tween) [-5], not quite SS (Minor), but not quite a full adult.

For the Longevity, 90+ seems fairly common, with over 100 being called "respectable" in the books. An average lifespan of 100, barring mishaps, and 111 being especially notable. (Bilbo's pre-sailing age of 140 was matched only by his grandfather, the Old Took, IIRC.)

[Kelly Pedersen]

Originally Posted by khorboth

I played a LOT of MERP in my teens. Sometimes, I get confused about what is in cannon and what is in the RPG. I can't actually think of where the eyes were mentioned in the novels.

Actually, the nature of the Woses' eyes are mentioned in Unfinished Tales, in the Druedain essay: "[their eyes] were so black that the pupils could not be distinguished, but in anger they glowed red."

For the other templates, I'd suggest some tweaks.

Dwarves should have Resistance or Immunity to Domination - that's not mind control in general, since emotional effects and suggestions could work on them, but they straight up can't be totally subdued by the will of someone else.

All the elves' templates should probably have HT +1 at least, if not more. Elves are just more resistant to bodily problems than humans are. I'd also give all of them the Telescopic Vision advantage. Even if you're assuming that only Legolas' type of elf should have it, it should go on the Sindar template, not the Sylvan one - Legolas was actually a Sindar. His grandfather was a Sindar prince who came east after the fall of Beleriand and established a realm in Mirkwood. However, I think being farsighted is just a general trait of elves, not just Legolas' kindred.

The Noldor should have ST+1 or more, and I'd give them HT +2 - the High Elves, even the ones who never actually lived in Valinor, were physically stronger and tougher than average humans. I'd consider giving at least some of them a few levels of Temperature Tolerance (Cold), as well - Voronwe, the Noldorin elf from the story of Tuor, notes that "long must be the hunger and cold the winter that shall slay the kin of those who passed the Grinding Ice."

[Stormcrow]

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

Dwarves should have Resistance or Immunity to Domination - that's not mind control in general, since emotional effects and suggestions could work on them, but they straight up can't be totally subdued by the will of someone else.

Hobbits should have something like this too. All hobbits who possess a Ring of Power show an ability to resist its effects that men never did. Gollum had the Ring for 500 years without fading into a wraith. Bilbo gave it up of his own free will after having it for 70 years (and being assisted by Gandalf). Sam refused its temptation when he got it, with his hobbit sense. Frodo eventually gave in, but he was exhausted, starved, parched, and standing on the brink of Mount Doom; he gets a pass. Meanwhile, Pippin manages to survive his Palantir encounter with Sauron without giving the game away, though Sauron was in haste and jumping to conclusions. Fatty Bolger is supposed to be frozen in fear when the Ringwraiths attack Crickhollow, but he manages to throw off the Black Breath long enough to run for help. And four hobbits and a ranger manage to spiritually fend off the nine Ringwraiths for weeks.

Yes, hobbits have very strong mental defenses.

[khorboth]

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

Hobbits should have something like this too. All hobbits who possess a Ring of Power show an ability to resist its effects that men never did. Gollum had the Ring for 500 years without fading into a wraith. Bilbo gave it up of his own free will after having it for 70 years (and being assisted by Gandalf). Sam refused its temptation when he got it, with his hobbit sense. Frodo eventually gave in, but he was exhausted, starved, parched, and standing on the brink of Mount Doom; he gets a pass. Meanwhile, Pippin manages to survive his Palantir encounter with Sauron without giving the game away, though Sauron was in haste and jumping to conclusions. Fatty Bolger is supposed to be frozen in fear when the Ringwraiths attack Crickhollow, but he manages to throw off the Black Breath long enough to run for help. And four hobbits and a ranger manage to spiritually fend off the nine Ringwraiths for weeks.

Yes, hobbits have very strong mental defenses.

I figured this into the WILL +2. Do you think they deserve more than this?

[naloth]

I'd probably give Hobbits Chameleon. They don't seem to be noticed unless someone is looking for hobbits.

Legolas and presumably other Elfkind was abnormally light footed. They didn't hardly leave tracks and could walk on snow. The former seems like a good perk while the latter makes them very well adapted to run where others can't walk.

[khorboth]

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

Actually, the nature of the Woses' eyes are mentioned in Unfinished Tales, in the Druedain essay: "[their eyes] were so black that the pupils could not be distinguished, but in anger they glowed red."

Thanks for the reference!

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

Dwarves should have Resistance or Immunity to Domination - that's not mind control in general, since emotional effects and suggestions could work on them, but they straight up can't be totally subdued by the will of someone else.

That's a good point. Not sure how to model it. Resistant... Rare? I'm not sure about the +3 or +8 level.

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

All the elves' templates should probably have HT +1 at least, if not more. Elves are just more resistant to bodily problems than humans are. I'd also give all of them the Telescopic Vision advantage. Even if you're assuming that only Legolas' type of elf should have it, it should go on the Sindar template, not the Sylvan one - Legolas was actually a Sindar. His grandfather was a Sindar prince who came east after the fall of Beleriand and established a realm in Mirkwood. However, I think being farsighted is just a general trait of elves, not just Legolas' kindred.

The Noldor should have ST+1 or more, and I'd give them HT +2 - the High Elves, even the ones who never actually lived in Valinor, were physically stronger and tougher than average humans. I'd consider giving at least some of them a few levels of Temperature Tolerance (Cold), as well - Voronwe, the Noldorin elf from the story of Tuor, notes that "long must be the hunger and cold the winter that shall slay the kin of those who passed the Grinding Ice."

I think my first draft of the elf templates were all over 100 points. I feel like if we take everything that's truly Elven, we'll wind up with any starting Elf character as being nothing more than Elf. So, I'm trying to stay with the bare essence of Elf-ness is so that the feel is right, but the points are managable. That way Elves are playable. It's a hard line to walk.

That said, I think the farsightedness is a good point and will add it to all the templates. And thanks for the reminder that Legolas is Sindarian.