Multiple attacks / multiple targets on the same turn? Any penalties?

[Boge]

"You can perform your step before or
after the rest of the maneuver; for
instance, you could step and attack or
attack and step." B363

Okay, so if the Maneuver is All Out Attack Double, or Rapid Strike, those are 1 maneuver which you would not be able to step half way through that maneuver. "Before or after". So you'd need to do both All Out Attacks, or both Rapid Strike attacks before a step would be allowed.

"Extra Attack is exactly that: an
extra Attack maneuver on your turn in
combat." B53

Seeing as how it is an extra maneuver, I'd assume you could attack, then step, then attack again with Extra Attack.

I'll suggest my group plays it that way unless I hear otherwise.

I'm still unsure about the hexes between targets in the scenario I posted above. Is it 1 or 2 "wasted" attacks between the two targets?

[Verjigorm]

Originally Posted by Boge

"You can perform your step before or
after the rest of the maneuver; for
instance, you could step and attack or
attack and step." B363

Okay, so if the Maneuver is All Out Attack Double, or Rapid Strike, those are 1 maneuver which you would not be able to step half way through that maneuver. "Before or after". So you'd need to do both All Out Attacks, or both Rapid Strike attacks before a step would be allowed.

"Extra Attack is exactly that: an
extra Attack maneuver on your turn in
combat." B53

Seeing as how it is an extra maneuver, I'd assume you could attack, then step, then attack again with Extra Attack.

I'll suggest my group plays it that way unless I hear otherwise.

I'm still unsure about the hexes between targets in the scenario I posted above. Is it 1 or 2 "wasted" attacks between the two targets?

Under Combinations in Martial Arts, it describes using a step between the attacks. A combination is a rapid-strike. Ergo, I would assume that you can step in between a rapid strike's attack.

It's one wasted strike. But you need to move to allow it to not be a wild swing.

[Anaraxes]

In general, you can arrange your movement/steps and attacks anywhere you like. If you have a 2-hex Step, you can Step 1, attack, and Step 1. If you Move and Attack, you can attack, move a couple of hexes, and attack someone else. A Rapid Strike is not an Extra Attack (even if it is an extra attack, in the casual sense).

Originally Posted by Boge

Seeing as how it is an extra maneuver

It's not, despite the unfortunate appearance of that word in the text. The only way to get a full extra physical Maneuver is Altered Time Rate.

Originally Posted by Kromm

Extra Attack does precisely one thing to one of the legal maneuvers: it adds an attack. It has no effect on the maneuver's other features, such as movement, modifiers, skill caps, damage, or defenses.

http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...3&postcount=11

[Boge]

Where's 5th edition to rewrite all this confusion? *sigh*

[Anaraxes]

More like Fourth Edition, fourth printing for Characters, to include errata changes. A fifth edition proper would call for some substantial new features or design changes, and no one's admitted to any plans for that.

(I can recall one thread where Kromm was speculating it wouldn't really be worthwhile unless they could deliver a truly digital product, rules in the form of a database that could drive aids like GCA or a VTT, as well as be used just to generate a PDF or POD text.)

For what it's worth, I didn't see this particular point in the online errata, so I filled out that form.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Verjigorm

Note that the three hexes to your Front are ALL Front Hexes. The three hexes behind you are your Left, Right, and Back hexes. Normally, you cannot attack to your side hexes without making a Wild Swing(-5 to hit, Skill capped at 9), though Peripheral Vision allows you to make one-handed attacks to the respective side of the weapon you are using, or both sides if you have a two-handed weapon. To avoid the wild swing penalty if you don't have Peripheral Vision, you would need to use a step or movement to change your facing or position.

Wild swing doesn't reduce reach though.... I guess I could envision this as wild torso twisting/leaning to allow full reach? Seems like if you reduce the reach it should be a reduced penalty on wild swing then.

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

See B368, which (among other things) says you can step either before or after the action that's part of your Maneuver. B363 ("Movement and Maneuvers") says the same thing, explicitly using "step and attack, or attack and step" as an example.

B388 defines a Wild Swing as attacking a foe to your side or rear, or that you can't see. If you arrange for them not to be in your side or rear (that is, your front), then it wouldn't be a Wild Swing. B74 covers Peripheral Vision and the benefits it gives for making attacks to the side(s) not a Wild Swing.

Being able to do a step at the start or end of a maneuver isn't that helpful when making multiple attacks during the same maneuver and needing to reposition yourself to put new targets in your front hexes.

Unless you had Basic Move of 10+ (2-yard step) which allows you to basically split your 2yard step into a pair of 1 yard steps (which you can divide between multiple attacks) the only way in Basic Set to maneuver between attacks was Movement Points, either 1/2 Move from All-Out Attack or full move from Move and Attack.

GURPS Martial Arts gave 2 more options:
1) committed attack (2 steps)
2) trading attacks for steps (chambara)

I could be forgetting some.

Originally Posted by Boge

Okay, so if the Maneuver is All Out Attack Double, or Rapid Strike, those are 1 maneuver which you would not be able to step half way through that maneuver.

AOA doesn't use a step, it uses 1/2 Move. Although since it has to be "forward" it isn't as versatile.

Rapid Strike isn't a maneuver, it's a combat option you can use to replace any attack with.

Originally Posted by Boge

"Before or after". So you'd need to do both All Out Attacks, or both Rapid Strike attacks before a step would be allowed.

With AOA double there's no reason I can see why you couldn't hit, use Movement Points, hit again.

Originally Posted by Boge

"Extra Attack is exactly that: an extra Attack maneuver on your turn in
combat." B53

Seeing as how it is an extra maneuver, I'd assume you could attack, then step, then attack again with Extra Attack.

I'll suggest my group plays it that way unless I hear otherwise.

I would assume that too, going by just the Basic Set. We even see this opinion held by Cole in 2010, albeit 3 years before TG came out.

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

I believe the way to think about this is that Extra Attack gives you an extra attack maneuver. Dual Weapon Attack takes one of those maneuvers and uses two weapons.

After B53-B54, P49/MA44 revisits don't do anything to discredit the "extra maneuver" view either...

Hwever there ARE two places in GURPS Martial Arts (albeit in very odd places to look) which appear to take the "it's not an extra maneuver anymore" view:

Page 42 (discussing Altered Time Rate) says, following mention of TBAM:

those with exceptional coordination should look at Extra Attack (p. B53). Fighters with both can make many attacks but are still limited to one maneuver per turn.

Page 128 (giving example of Chambara's "trading attacks for steps"):

Serena has Extra Attack 1, giving her two basic attacks. Taking an Attack maneuver, she converts one into a Rapid Strike for three attacks at -6 apiece (-12, halved for Trained by a Master). She trades the other for a step. With the basic step allowed on an Attack, she gets two steps.

If she got 2 full Attack maneuvers (like someone with Altered Time Rate could do) then she'd already have 2 steps, trading the "attack" portion of an Attack Maneuver would've given her 3.

Whereas, if you had to trade an entire Attack Maneuver (attack+step) for an Extra Step, it wouldn't really many any sense to do that, you're not gaining anything, only losing.

Originally Posted by Boge

I'm still unsure about the hexes between targets in the scenario I posted above. Is it 1 or 2 "wasted" attacks between the two targets?

There is only one hex between you, so RAW you would only have to waste 1 attack even though it's a massive 180 degree pivot which would cost 3 extra attacks if you tried it with a reach 2 weapon or 5 extra with a reach 3.