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Old 01-04-2018, 03:40 PM   #11
DanHoward
 
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Default Re: Logistically Viable Weapons AtE

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
I think that is only true for TL4 and maybe early TL5 firearms. At mid to late TL5 and especially at TL6, pike formations are just pointless suicide. Most post-apocalyptic settings have TL6-TL9+ firearms, the only exception I can think of are things like the Emberverse where firearms just don't work anymore.

You don't see trained pike being fielded against even green preadolescent children armed with AKMs in the conflicts in central Africa, for example, and the suggestion that you should seems ... unsound.

During the 19th century trained spearmen like Zulus and Comanche abandoned spears for firearms all over the world. Presumably they had sound military reasons to do so.
Which is why I deliberately specified "crude firearms", But even at TL6 the right troops will win with inferior weapons if they are highly trained and deployed properly. FWIW one of the reasons why armies adopted firearms as fast as they did was because of the difficulty in raising highly trained and disciplined troops. It is quicker and easier to raise a greater number of poorly trained men and give the firearms, even if these weapons gave no significant tactical advantage.
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Old 01-04-2018, 03:47 PM   #12
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Default Re: Logistically Viable Weapons AtE

its only during late TL5 that you see the gun achieve true battlefield dominance. As you state DURING the nineteenth century. And at that point in time, you still had cavalry formations that attacked in melee combat and carried the day against fire-arm carrying troops. Massed charges only become infeasible against TL6 machine guns or units of well drilled troops quick firing breech-loaded rounds. Such weapons show up only in the last 10 years of TL5, and the grand majority of TL5 is fought with muzzle loaded fire arms and bayonets.

of course, after the end settings have a weird tech level, and if you've got a factory churning out ammunition back home... you've got a clear advantage on everyone else, who is counting their bullets. As for what ammo you should be churning out, that probably depends on what the most common gun remaining in the area is.

I don't know what the most common caliber in the US, but 12 gauge shotgun rounds are a strong contender. Well over half of all shotguns I see seem to use this round. The biggest concern with such a round is range. Of course, that's more than one round: are you making just slugs also buckshot rounds?
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Old 01-04-2018, 03:52 PM   #13
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Default Re: Logistically Viable Weapons AtE

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Which is why I deliberately specified "crude firearms"
What kinds of weapons does that mean specifically? What firearm is crude enough to qualify but still can use the stockpiles of M855?
Quote:
But even at TL6 the right troops will win with inferior weapons if they are highly trained and deployed properly.
Do you have a historical example in mind?

Tercios seem like a especially bad idea against machine gun emplacements. I don't really see anyway that can possibly work out without unsustainable casualties.

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Old 01-04-2018, 03:59 PM   #14
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Default Re: Logistically Viable Weapons AtE

Pyramid 88 has an article on Post-Apocalyptic Guns that will answer this question very thoroughly.
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Old 01-04-2018, 04:13 PM   #15
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Default Re: Logistically Viable Weapons AtE

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But even at TL6 the right troops will win with inferior weapons if they are highly trained and deployed properly.
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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Do you have a historical example in mind?
This is the essential principle of most special forces, but it particularly applies to paratroopers. You train paratroopers hard, deploy them in a spectacular fashion, and then expect them to win against numerically superior forces with heavier equipment.
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Old 01-04-2018, 04:24 PM   #16
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Default Re: Logistically Viable Weapons AtE

Having members of a unit trained and equipped to salvage for, make and remake ammunition into the caliber(s) used by everyone else there might be viable.

Something like an SKS designed with large amounts of bayonet use in mind?
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Old 01-04-2018, 04:34 PM   #17
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Default Re: Logistically Viable Weapons AtE

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This is the essential principle of most special forces, but it particularly applies to paratroopers. You train paratroopers hard, deploy them in a spectacular fashion, and then expect them to win against numerically superior forces with heavier equipment.
Paratrooper equipment is inferior in that it compromises performance for transportability. It's not normally inferior in the sense of being outdated!
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Old 01-04-2018, 04:44 PM   #18
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Default Re: Logistically Viable Weapons AtE

To me the main issue is making quality bullets that shoot the same and wont foul the gun. I think your more likely to be able to salvage a decent amount of guns and repair them but run low on bullets.
I would issue crossbows, at least as backups until I could make a lot of bullets.
At least with those your not losing your ammo during target practice.
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Old 01-04-2018, 04:52 PM   #19
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Default Re: Logistically Viable Weapons AtE

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This is the essential principle of most special forces, but it particularly applies to paratroopers. You train paratroopers hard, deploy them in a spectacular fashion, and then expect them to win against numerically superior forces with heavier equipment.
Who deploys airborne pike squares?

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Old 01-04-2018, 04:53 PM   #20
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Default Re: Logistically Viable Weapons AtE

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It's an After the End Falloutisk scenario and I'm a tactically adept warlord trying to arm my conscripts with a cheap to manufacture, reliable, easily maintained weapon as we try and build an Autocratic state out of the ruins of america.

Considering barely trained conscrips armed with this weapon will be the bread and butter combatant my PCs will be facing I'm not looking for a weapon that's "good", ideally it would be reliable and cheap at the expense of other traits like wounding ability, accuracy, and weight.

Two ideas I've had so far have been a stripped down basic bolt action rifle, and the TRW low maintenance rifle. Though I want the gun to start off on the low end of effectiveness, I'd also like it have plenty of room to improve through play, either becouse the players have taken a liking to them and want to improve the design or becouse this faction has grown and can now provide a better weapon.
For a low-logistics "enemy gun", I'd go with a low caliber, muzzle-loading, black powder flintlock rifle firing minie balls. Black powder is relatively easy to make; minie balls are nearly as easy to cast as round balls but more accurate; a low caliber (.30 or .40 or so) is dangerous but not impossibly deadly if a PC takes a hit.

There's also some obvious upgrade paths: better powder, Allin style trapdoor conversions to make them single shot breechloaders, and then multi-shot capability by adding magazines.

Sharpshooters and elite troops can use scavenged pre-Fall weapons.
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