Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-04-2018, 08:15 AM   #1
Minuteman37
 
Minuteman37's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Kenai, Alaska
Default Logistically Viable Weapons AtE

It's an After the End Falloutisk scenario and I'm a tactically adept warlord trying to arm my conscripts with a cheap to manufacture, reliable, easily maintained weapon as we try and build an Autocratic state out of the ruins of america.

Considering barely trained conscrips armed with this weapon will be the bread and butter combatant my PCs will be facing I'm not looking for a weapon that's "good", ideally it would be reliable and cheap at the expense of other traits like wounding ability, accuracy, and weight.

Two ideas I've had so far have been a stripped down basic bolt action rifle, and the TRW low maintenance rifle. Though I want the gun to start off on the low end of effectiveness, I'd also like it have plenty of room to improve through play, either becouse the players have taken a liking to them and want to improve the design or becouse this faction has grown and can now provide a better weapon.
Minuteman37 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2018, 08:23 AM   #2
DanHoward
 
DanHoward's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Default Re: Logistically Viable Weapons AtE

Training, morale, and logistics will be a lot more important than equipment. If you can put together a small force of highly disciplined pikemen with some cavalry and sniper support, you will roll over most forces that have crude firearms.
__________________
Compact Castles gives the gamer an instant portfolio of genuine, real-world castle floorplans to use in any historical, low-tech, or fantasy game setting.

Last edited by DanHoward; 01-04-2018 at 08:29 AM.
DanHoward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2018, 08:45 AM   #3
The Colonel
 
The Colonel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Default Re: Logistically Viable Weapons AtE

For Fallout:New Vegas fans that would seem to be part of the doctrine on Caesar's Legion - mostly armed with melee weapons and javelins but have been able to conquer huge areas with superior organisation and aggression.
The Colonel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2018, 08:58 AM   #4
malloyd
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Default Re: Logistically Viable Weapons AtE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minuteman37 View Post
It's an After the End Falloutisk scenario and I'm a tactically adept warlord trying to arm my conscripts with a cheap to manufacture, reliable, easily maintained weapon as we try and build an Autocratic state out of the ruins of america.
"Cheap to manufacture" is a slippery target.

Historically the flintlock rifle displaced most everything else because it could be repaired (and copied!) by village blacksmiths, so I think that's the lowest level target - a tolerably accurate firearm that can be manufactured by craftsmen who probably aren't skilled enough to make a sword or other fancy pre-gunpowder weapons.

The issue with bolt action rifles isn't so much the gun - they need tighter tolerances than the flintlocks, but if your society has machine shops at all it can make useful numbers of them easily enough - it's the supply of cartridges which are rather intricate chemical and metallurgical machines themselves.
__________________
--
MA Lloyd
malloyd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2018, 09:54 AM   #5
phayman53
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Default Re: Logistically Viable Weapons AtE

Quote:
Originally Posted by malloyd View Post
"Cheap to manufacture" is a slippery target.

Historically the flintlock rifle displaced most everything else because it could be repaired (and copied!) by village blacksmiths, so I think that's the lowest level target - a tolerably accurate firearm that can be manufactured by craftsmen who probably aren't skilled enough to make a sword or other fancy pre-gunpowder weapons.

The issue with bolt action rifles isn't so much the gun - they need tighter tolerances than the flintlocks, but if your society has machine shops at all it can make useful numbers of them easily enough - it's the supply of cartridges which are rather intricate chemical and metallurgical machines themselves.
I agree with this completely for manufacturing new firearms. However, remember that AtE assumes that the vast majority of the population died. This means, depending on the setting (such as North America or any other area where there are a relatively high number of guns per capita) and reason for the "end", there might be a LOT of guns and ammo left lying around that would take a long time for the surviving population to deplete. This point was made in a thread I started back in April here where I asked a fairly similar question. That said, if in your setting ammo was depleted or not particularly widely available in your area, flintlocks might be your warlord's best bet. If this were not the case, then you would probably have a fairly large supply of "standard" caliber ammunition and weapons such as 9mm, .45, 556/.223, 7.62x51/.308 or 7.62x39, possibly 30-06, etc. Shotguns, both shot and slugs, could also be very popular given the fact that shotgun shells would be fairly easy to manufacture and tolerances on shotguns are typically less strict than other firearms.
phayman53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2018, 11:54 AM   #6
jason taylor
 
jason taylor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
Default Re: Logistically Viable Weapons AtE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minuteman37 View Post
It's an After the End Falloutisk scenario and I'm a tactically adept warlord trying to arm my conscripts with a cheap to manufacture, reliable, easily maintained weapon as we try and build an Autocratic state out of the ruins of america.

Considering barely trained conscrips armed with this weapon will be the bread and butter combatant my PCs will be facing I'm not looking for a weapon that's "good", ideally it would be reliable and cheap at the expense of other traits like wounding ability, accuracy, and weight.

Two ideas I've had so far have been a stripped down basic bolt action rifle, and the TRW low maintenance rifle. Though I want the gun to start off on the low end of effectiveness, I'd also like it have plenty of room to improve through play, either becouse the players have taken a liking to them and want to improve the design or becouse this faction has grown and can now provide a better weapon.
Did you remember to provide yourself with a pampered private guard to keep all your conscripts in line? Just sayin.
__________________
"The navy could probably win a war without coffee but would prefer not to try"-Samuel Eliot Morrison
jason taylor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2018, 11:54 AM   #7
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: Logistically Viable Weapons AtE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minuteman37 View Post
It's an After the End Falloutisk scenario and I'm a tactically adept warlord trying to arm my conscripts with a cheap to manufacture, reliable, easily maintained weapon as we try and build an Autocratic state out of the ruins of america.
Well, the first question is whether you have stockpiles of pre-End weapons and ammunition; if so, you may be able to spend quite a long time running through them, and thus your weapon choice will be determined by what you have (checking around, the top 5 ammo types in the US are 9mm, 5.56mm, .45 ACP, 12GA shot, .22LR). If you want the PCs to feel awesome, the warlord has a big stockpile of .22LR.
__________________
My GURPS site and Blog.
Anthony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2018, 12:25 PM   #8
Minuteman37
 
Minuteman37's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Kenai, Alaska
Default Re: Logistically Viable Weapons AtE

There are definitely stockpiles of prewar ammunition scattered about. It's the reason I'm not strongly considering flintlocks. My initial idea is to have whatever weapon chosen be chambered in 5.56 NATO, but at least initially the conscrips are using low quality ammunition made in this warlords factories. I'm thinking carbine length rifles so for 5.56 that would be 4d+2 pi, acc 4 by default. 3d+2 pi-, acc 3 when using the bad ammunition.
Minuteman37 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2018, 12:37 PM   #9
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: Logistically Viable Weapons AtE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minuteman37 View Post
My initial idea is to have whatever weapon chosen be chambered in 5.56 NATO, but at least initially the conscrips are using low quality ammunition made in this warlords factories.
If I were planning on making low quality ammunition, 5.56N would not be high on my list of choices. Assuming you even have the capability to manufacture TL 6+ ammunition (kind of tricky to do), 7.62x39 is much more suited to low quality manufacturing.
__________________
My GURPS site and Blog.
Anthony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2018, 03:03 PM   #10
sir_pudding
Wielder of Smart Pants
 
sir_pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
Default Re: Logistically Viable Weapons AtE

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanHoward View Post
Training, morale, and logistics will be a lot more important than equipment. If you can put together a small force of highly disciplined pikemen with some cavalry and sniper support, you will roll over most forces that have crude firearms.
I think that is only true for TL4 and maybe early TL5 firearms. At mid to late TL5 and especially at TL6, pike formations are just pointless suicide. Most post-apocalyptic settings have TL6-TL9+ firearms, the only exception I can think of are things like the Emberverse where firearms just don't work anymore.

You don't see trained pike being fielded against even green preadolescent children armed with AKMs in the conflicts in central Africa, for example, and the suggestion that you should seems ... unsound.

During the 19th century trained spearmen like Zulus and Comanche abandoned spears for firearms all over the world. Presumably they had sound military reasons to do so.

Last edited by sir_pudding; 01-04-2018 at 03:09 PM.
sir_pudding is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:47 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.