Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-04-2018, 10:19 PM   #41
gibberingmouther
 
gibberingmouther's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: PA
Default Re: Dragon Ball Inspired "Ki" Hero

thanks John.

okay, i'm almost done. one of the things i can't decide on is how flight speed progresses with power level.

currently, i have flight speed going up at a rate of +25 yards/second per 10 ki points. so let's say Vegeta at a power level of 100 would be able to move almost as fast as a typical aircraft. i would prefer that ki fighters in the relatively high 40-60 power level be able to be as fast as aircraft (since i want ki fighters to keep up with technology). so i could instead use a power of two progression - 20, 40, 80, 160, 320, etc., so a power level of 50 would move as fast as an aircraft, but this seems too extreme at high levels (being able to speed past an explosion, which while it fits with Dragon Ball canon, kind of strains GURPS's realism based ruleset and isn't so consistent with the power level elsewhere). what do you guys think? i just can't decide.

edit: okay, a fast aircraft goes maybe 260ish meters per second - the same as Vegeta at a power level of 100. the speed of sound is 343 meters per second, so super saiyan Vegeta or Goku could go faster than that. being able to outrun an explosion at power level 80 (while it fits with DB canon) would require me to make a new defense maneuver i think, and that speed would be so extreme that your mind couldn't really keep up and it would be extremely difficult to control yourself (though i guess there's something to be said for practice). i kind of like having the DB canon and extremes of speed at high levels is consistent with Dragon Ball's story but i'm thinking i might stay with the +25 yards/second. still open to input from anyone if you think you have a good idea though.

Last edited by gibberingmouther; 01-04-2018 at 10:38 PM.
gibberingmouther is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2018, 08:54 PM   #42
gibberingmouther
 
gibberingmouther's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: PA
Default Re: Dragon Ball Inspired "Ki" Hero

okay, i came up with some numbers for ki aura powered tactile TK, so now the only thing remaining (besides some ki blast numbers for ranges/one "sweeping" maneuver), is how to balance high levels of striking strength against lower levels of striking strength and lower levels of speed.

so with ki, striking strength and speed both increase at a regular rate. so far my rule is, for every 25 points of ki/maneuver you have, you get one extra attack or movement maneuver, and one extra parry. you still only get one ki blast maneuver per turn, but those deal more damage than strikes with limbs and represent keeping a beam on the target for 1 second at a time. that reminds me of having a penalty maybe to keeping a beam at the same location on tank armor for example to gradually wear it down ... maybe just a -2 penalty to the innate attack roll? hmmmm.... maybe you can throw "grenade" ki blasts at a faster rate, but limited to ki/maneuver for the entire turn? gets complicated. a good way to come up with stuff useful at higher power levels. like Goku does the grenade blast thing against Cell and wears him down a bit, and super Trunks did the same thing.

anyway, i'm not sure how to represent a lower power level or ordinary person trying to block a high level striking strength attack. one idea i had was that you could parry a striking strength up to twice your own striking strength. another was that you could parry one of up to 10 points higher than your own, and you take a -2 penalty to defense per 5 points difference. i'm not sure how to do this, block, parry, dodge vs. supers. i know i don't like the RAW.

i'm not sure about some of these rules, so any input is welcome!
gibberingmouther is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2018, 06:32 PM   #43
gibberingmouther
 
gibberingmouther's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: PA
Default Re: Dragon Ball Inspired "Ki" Hero

how much of a difference in strength should have a chance of the defender's unarmed parry (against a higher strength unarmed attack) resulting in the defender's limbs being damaged? does anybody have any ideas about this?
gibberingmouther is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2018, 08:22 PM   #44
gibberingmouther
 
gibberingmouther's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: PA
Default Re: Dragon Ball Inspired "Ki" Hero

okay, here is my rules supplement: please, i could use some constructive criticism! i don't think everything is balanced, especially the dodge bonuses.

here it is:
By George Young; a rules supplement for GURPS 4ed

Note: the point costs of abilities (character points, action points, fatigue points) are somewhat arbitrary and based on guesses; from experimentation in your campaign, you might want to revise them, and if you have suggestions for improvement please notify me! for "action points", see Pyramid 3/44 "The Last Gasp"

Theory:
ki is a form of psychic energy that pervades a person's spirit body, emanating from the Source within. the makeup of a person's spirit body is determined by their Higher Self (yeah i'm ********ting new age here, lol). ki enhanced strength, speed, and durability result from a form of telekinesis - the spirit body moves according to the hero's thoughts, and this telekinetically "pulls" the real body along with it. this is how enhanced strengh, speed, and durability work. the spirit body forces the real body to stay in tune with it - resisting any deformation of the real body from bullets, super punches, heavy weights, etc. however, this process of spirit body telekinesis costs ki, and more ki in proportion to the difficulty of the feats.

since ki is psychic energy, the user is able to perform telekinesis on whatever is infused with their ki - since the body is infused with ki, this allows flight for example. teleportation is possible by the same logic. ki blasts are caused when the hero turns their ki into pure energy - the energy introduced into the system causes an explosion, the rapid expansion of heated gases - and forms and directs this ki infused energy into a ki blast. healing works by using ki energy to restore the body to the template of the spirit body. you get the idea.

ki meditation is 5 points; after that is power level enhancement (5 ki points per rank): cost is 40 for ki meditation, then 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, and 100 for ranks in power level enhancement

ki points are X points per maneuver. most ki abilities cost action points.

super training enhancement (10 points of ki per rank; cost is 100 per rank; must have taken all 6 ranks in power level enhancement to take ranks in this)

sense ki is free once you buy up to 15 ki points - you can sense how much ki a foe has, and can sense upwells in energy allowing you bonuses to defense. you can pretend to be weaker by reducing your ki aura, but you actually are weaker when you do this; as a free or ready action you can power back up
ki users with sense ki can block other ki users' techniques because they can sense the upwells in energy - they can do this in fact with all biological foes; can block ki blasts or teleport away and can defend against ki-based techniques they can't see, for example if it came from behind; have to roll to parry or dodge but get a bonus of +1 to all defenses from biologicals' physical/ki-based attacks

1 point of ki is 1 point of strength enhancement (lifting strength and striking strength are separate; using striking strength enables you to get extra attacks per round ala rapid strike, except the penalty is reduced); or 1 point of ki is 1 point of DR; you can use ki as a free action to react to an attack and expend ki for DR as long as you are powered up; tactile TK costs an additional 5 points of ki per yard of support - GM can use discretion as far as determining what you can lift without breaking

DR from ki isn't subject to armor divisors, from firearms to innate attacks such as ki blasts

if you don't have flight, you can spend up to 20 ki points for a +2 bonus to dodge (or 10 for a +1); if you have flight you can spend as much as 10 ki points/+1 bonus to dodge (no cap; but bonuses after a certain point won't do anything in most scenarios)

flight: cost is 40 as per Basic Set, plus you need a power level of at least 20; ki cost to use is 10 per flight move maneuver (basic move * 2), + 10 per 25 yards/second; cost is 1 action point per 50 ki points spent or per full power level worth of ki points spent; moving at basic move * 2 in flight or hovering doesn't cost any action points

movement enhancement - 4 ki points per 1 yard/second; capped somewhat arbitrarily at 20 yards/second - up to the GM, can increase this cap but this is probably appropriate for this rules supplement. still, i'm not an expert on biomechanics, so i don't know what the physics-based cap for supers should be.

per 25 points of ki, can get an extra attack or move maneuver or "grenade" ki blast (this is the only ki blast that you can get extra attacks with; otherwise, the ki blast is represented as the damage done in 1 second by the blast) similar to altered time rate or extra attack (remember, can only do one all-out attack); but all attack rolls are at -2 per 25 points spent; can't stack this with rapid strike; using extra maneuvers has an action point cost of 1 point in addition to the normal costs; likewise you get extra parries per 25 points you can spend, divided into separate parry maneuvers - these are also at -2 per 25 points spent; ordinarily with karate you can only parry twice

short distance teleport ("warp") - costs 80 points and requires a power level of at least 50; ki cost is 25 per teleport; can only move to where you can see or "feel" - can't move into solid objects, as it would require too much ki to move material denser than air out of the way; you can move yourself and your equipment because of your ki aura, or something; does not require a roll, is automatic (and can use this in place of a dodge roll); cost is 5 action points to activate

ki blast ranges: regular ki blast beams have a range of 700/2,100; scaling sphere or spirit bomb moves at 100 yards per turn + 25 yards / second per additional 5 ki points spent

non-ki users can only dodge ki blasts; ki users with sense ki can parry them in addition but must expend ki points equal to the cost of the blast, or else they can spend ki for DR up to their power level or if they readied an action they can use TK shield; remember: the armor divisor of ki blasts does not apply to DR from ki enhancement

you can use one handed ki blast beams (so not scaling sphere or spirit bomb attack or large beam) in either hand in one round; there is a penalty of -1 to both left and right hand attacks, plus an additional -1 to the right hand attack roll if you aren't ambidexterous or trained in fighting with two weapons. in addition, you can focus on one spot in the armor of a vehicle for example to wear it down cumulatively per second (first apply the armor divisor, then calculate armor points per second lost); this applies a penalty of -4 to attacks after the first.

action point cost for ki blasts is 1 per second or 1 per 50 ki points spent, whichever is larger

all ki blasts require a power level of at least 20 (3 ranks of power level enhancement)

ray (costs 10 points to buy):
1d6 (1), 2d6 (1), 3d6 (2), 4d6 (2), 5d6 (2) burn (no Surge for ki blasts; damage is per ???)
if you can focus on the same area (an IA: Ki Blast roll), you can reduce armor DR gradually - modify the DR by the divisor then calculate damage per second
have to roll against innate attack: ki blast to maintain the blast in the same spot
costs 2 ki points per d6 per second

small beam (costs 15 points to buy):
2d6 (2), 3d6 (3), 4d6 (3), 5d6 (4), 6d6 (5), 7d6 (5), 8d6 (6), burn
costs 3 ki points per d6 per second

large beam (costs 20 points to buy; has knockback if you block it (using ki or another method) even though it's a burning attack):
3d6 (4), 4d6 (4), 5d6 (5), 6d6 (5), 7d6 (6), 8d6 (7), 9d6 (8), 10d6 (8), 11d6 (9), 12d6 (10) burn
costs 5 ki points per d6 per second

scaling sphere (costs 25 points to buy; can "throw" it or TK-direct it; acts like a grenade or missile):
"grenade": 3d6 (1), 4d6 (1), 5d6 (2), 6d6 (2) cr ex; easy to aim
"missile": Nd6*10 (10) cr ex
for "grenade" blasts, costs 5 ki points per d6 - doesn't work by per second
for "missile" blasts, costs N*40 points

inundating cone (cost 30 points to buy; a broad melee cone; a melee directed explosion that targets the whole body of only one person):
3d6 (2), 4d6 (2), 5d6 (3), 6d6, (4), 7d6 (4), 8d6 (5), 9d6 (6)
cost is 3 points per d6

spirit bomb (costs 50 points to buy; only usable by those who are pure of heart; exactly like scaling sphere except it is cheaper and takes longer to charge)
Nd6*10 (10) cr ex
costs N*10 points but takes 4 seconds per N to charge and it's obvious what you're doing

custom ki blasts
(destructo disk, etc.)
gibberingmouther is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2018, 08:23 PM   #45
gibberingmouther
 
gibberingmouther's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: PA
Default Re: Dragon Ball Inspired "Ki" Hero

should have an option of ki blasts hitting each other cinematically; can do this if one person readies an action to do a ki blast after the foe does one

power up, need at least 15 ki points but is free; lowers usable ki points by 5 to keep active; allows you to automatically expend ki points for DR after getting hit; or used after deceptively lowering ki aura/power level which also requires at least 15 ki points

"force push" type ki TK maneuver (telekinetic push), optionally does damage (xd6 crushing damage and knockback only per 10*x points spent to a maximum of 50 points spent total; and an additional optional yd6 crushing damage per additional 10*y points spent; ki users can resist the knockback by spending the same amount of ki points). automatic at 20 ki points; costs 1 action point.

"force shield" type maneuver (telekinetic shield), can use ki aura TK to block missiles and other projectiles (ki cost to block an individual projectile including a ki blast is equal to its rolled damage - if a projectile exceeds the amount of ki you're able to spend, reduce the damage as if it were the shield were DR; as with ki DR ignore armor divisors; you can block missiles with this as well, by using TK to avoid triggering the explosion mechanism - the ki cost is only the first number, or up to the GM's judgment, ignoring the x modifier since the weapon hasn't detonated). using TK shield is a maneuver that costs 1 action point and can only be used in one direction. automatic at 20 ki points.

Namekian regeneration - costs 5 points of ki per hp restored; 5 action points to initiate regeneration; still must protect head

Namekian magic - use GURPS magic, i'm leaving this up to the game master because i don't have that book.

healing (just health damage; cost is 50 points; requires a power level of at least 15) - costs 15 points of ki per hp restored, self or other; a healer can use TK push and TK shield but cannot purchase ki blasts, and vice versa a ki blaster can't use heal; costs 1 action points per hit point restored, self or other. saiyans can't buy this but humans and namekians can

kaioken - gives 150% ki points (1.5 times rounded up or down?) for 3 seconds; costs 1 fatigue per 3 seconds or can optionally burn through 1 hit point per 3 seconds but this damage must be healed by rest, it cannot be healed with ki (it is damage to the integrity of the spirit body itself, thus ki healing which relies on the spirit body's template does not work); technique costs 100, plus you need someone to learn it from and need a power level of at least 25 (should be a rare ability, like super saiyan, which you cannot stack it with)

super saiyan (double your ki points; requires intense rage and purity of intent - either good or evil - to trigger; you need saiyan blood; costs 150); activation cost is 35 ki so you need at least that high of a power level

saiyan power-up - if you survive a battle in which you are reduced to 1/4 or less of your hit points, and are restored, you may qualify for the next rank in power level enhancement without having to expend points, or a number of points toward super training enhancement (up to the game master's discretion)

2nd wind for fatigue; usable once per day, fully restores fatigue; everyone has this automatically

acrobatic dodge should be popular at low levels; but in this ruleset it doesn't stack with using flight to get a bonus to dodge

hitting someone in the solar plexus should risk stunning

revise rules for "parrying heavy weapons" - a 40 STR strike should not be parryable by someone with 10 STR. say a STR of X can block a STR of X + 10, but at a penalty of -2 to the parry roll per 5 points of difference in striking strength (the same penalty applies to dodging an attack from a super STR character; but there is no cap to what you dodge, just the cumulative -2 per 5 STR difference penalty to dodge or a -1 per 5 STR difference to blocking with a shield). an advanced enough ki user can automatically detect how much ki is behind a blow (sense ki), and can block it automatically (still has to roll against parry) with a ki cost equal to whatever quantity of ki points the defender decides to spend. he can spend a fatigue point to restore action points if he is out. if he doesn't have enough ki to parry, even with extra effort, he is outclassed

strongmen with strengths above 18 usually have lifting strength in excess of their base strength; martial artists may have striking strength in excess of their base strength, but only +2 max ordinarily for non-ki users

shields (blocking) can be awkward to attack through - you could literally punch through a wooden or plastic one, but a metal one could provide more resistance; you could teleport behind the shield-bearer and attack them, or you could try to strike around the shield - it's up to you and the GM

weapons are not much of a problem for high-level ki users - assume they can apply DR up to their ki/maneuver level to their strikes or parries

encourage extra effort use in this gameverse: gain extra ki points per action point spent, say 10 per action point spent per maneuver, but limited at + 50 - makes it so power level isn't the ultimate determinant of success in a fight, even without kaioken; can't stack this with kaioken; has a minimum requirement of a power level of 25 to use extra effort with ki this way

action points can be bought up to 2 * your will score if you have the ki meditation advantage. this represents the fact that you are using ki to enhance your regular body actions. also when you spend a fatigue point to regain action points, you can regain up to half your will score if that is higher than your health score.

fighters should be encouraged to buy extra fatigue and will and action points (perception could be useful as well); and karate and judo and maybe acrobatics

a lot of things in GURPS Powers shouldn't stack with the ki-fighter abilities listed here

suggestion: can use extremes of lifting strength to crush body parts, such as disarming a gun by crushing the forearm (or better yet just warp into position and use a gun disarm technique!). be creative!
gibberingmouther is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2018, 10:24 PM   #46
gibberingmouther
 
gibberingmouther's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: PA
Default Re: Dragon Ball Inspired "Ki" Hero

final post from me unless someone else posts!

the probably-final version of the homebrew is on the website in my signature.
__________________
i have my GURPS homebrew and a link to my Soundcloud at my website:
http://garm230.wixsite.com/scales
gibberingmouther is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2018, 08:57 PM   #47
gibberingmouther
 
gibberingmouther's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: PA
Default Re: Dragon Ball Inspired "Ki" Hero

okay i guess i lied about that being the last post, not intentionally though:

only one issue remaining with my Dragon Ball homebrew. at high tier levels, it becomes incredibly difficult to hit other ki fighters with your ki blasts. you have to raise your innate attack (ki blast skill) to absurd levels to hit each other (in the range of 30 to 40), using Deceptive Attack.

on the other hand, the only ki blast that is effective at high levels is the "scaling sphere" - either a missile type exploding sphere attack, or the "spirit bomb", which is the same thing except cheaper and takes longer to charge and is alignment limited - and that is effective in an area of effect, but still requires a dead on hit to do enough damage to break through the DR of a high tier character.

i think ki blasts and lasers in general should be harder to dodge. a ki blast beam (but not an "exploding sphere") moves at maybe 9 times the speed of sound or less (much faster than the flight of even a high tier character). a laser (a particle beam?) should move at the speed of light unless it is plasma based, in which case it might move at a rate similar to the ki blast. so i have to work with the GURPS rule set and arrange something that works with my homebrew.

i do like how the ki blasts and physical attacks scale when it comes to fighting mooks (a gaming term for an underpowered character who is meant to be taken out easily by the protagonists). but my rules should support fights between ki powered characters of various ranks as well.

edit: i was reading about this issue with ranged weapons and dodge, and i was reminded of the accuracy modifier. i could give an accuracy rating to my ki blasts to make them harder to dodge. any other fixes people can think of are welcome input!
__________________
i have my GURPS homebrew and a link to my Soundcloud at my website:
http://garm230.wixsite.com/scales

Last edited by gibberingmouther; 01-11-2018 at 09:47 PM.
gibberingmouther is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2018, 05:37 PM   #48
gibberingmouther
 
gibberingmouther's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: PA
Default Re: Dragon Ball Inspired "Ki" Hero

one last question (i hope): do machine guns or guns with a rate of fire higher than one interact differently with DR? like multiple shots wear down DR progressively? or is each shot accounted for individually? i'm assuming the latter is the case but i'm not certain.
__________________
i have my GURPS homebrew and a link to my Soundcloud at my website:
http://garm230.wixsite.com/scales
gibberingmouther is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2018, 09:03 PM   #49
johndallman
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
Default Re: Dragon Ball Inspired "Ki" Hero

Quote:
Originally Posted by gibberingmouther View Post
or is each shot accounted for individually?
Yes. There was once a specific rule for autofire lasers where shots added together to penetrate DR, but it was dropped at GURPS 4e.
johndallman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2018, 09:07 PM   #50
gibberingmouther
 
gibberingmouther's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: PA
Default Re: Dragon Ball Inspired "Ki" Hero

Quote:
Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
Yes. There was once a specific rule for autofire lasers where shots added together to penetrate DR, but it was dropped at GURPS 4e.
thank you!
__________________
i have my GURPS homebrew and a link to my Soundcloud at my website:
http://garm230.wixsite.com/scales
gibberingmouther is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.