Merits of 1st In vs Space 4e?

[lentulus]

I am looking for a good written (PDF format) set of rules for Hard SF system & world creation. I have played traveller in the distant past, but the systems I see most often recommended are both from SJG: Gurps Traveller First In and Gurps Space. I am not running an SF RPG per se, but looking for good generic tools to put together a hard sf universe.

The obvious difference is 1st In is slightly cheaper, but Space looks like it may have more useful secondary material. However, at the core, what differentiates the two world creation system?

Is Gurps Traveller still in the hexadecimal world of traveller as I knew it, or can 1st in be used without the overhead of other books?

Does either of the systems use metric, or are they both US common units?

What other points can I use to guide my choice? I will be buying one or the other in a week, so guidance would be appreciated.

[SCAR]

Both are available as PDFs from e23, which means there are Previews available:

GURPS Classic: Traveller: First In - 6 page preview available
GURPS Space (4e) - 12 page preview availables

[lentulus]

Originally Posted by SCAR

Both are available as PDFs from e23, which means there are Previews available:

Tables of contents and indexes are helpful, and got me this far, but no real substitute for experience with the rules. Anyone built worlds with both? Either? Have a favorite?

[sjard]

As I understand it, Space 4e uses an expanded version of the rules from First In (both by the same author). I think the Space version has been made slightly more generic and slightly less specific to Traveller.

Hope that helps.

[SCAR]

You could start with this thread, and it's author Brett who it would appear has done substantial work with creating worlds using the Space 4e rules as a starting point.

[Fnugus]

I think GURPS: Space is a great book. I don't have any experience of Traveller: First In, but the Traveller: Interstellar Wars for 4th Ed. GURPS is also a very nice resource. I like their system for building spaceships better than the one from Space/SpaceShips.

[Jon F. Zeigler]

There's a natural progression in place:

1. Classic Traveller, Book 6 (Scouts)
2. GURPS Traveller: First In
3. GURPS Space 4/e

The system in First In was based on the old Book 6 system, with a lot of research done to correct errors and make the system more flexible. It gives perfectly good results but in some ways it's not as useful as it could be - for one thing, it's not obvious how to run the system backwards so that you start from a planet of desired properties and work your way to the rest of the star system. You'll end up with a lot of red dwarf stars with no habitable planets . . . The system isn't tied to the old Traveller hexadecimal strings, nor does it use metric, although it's easy enough to translate if you want to.

The Space 4/e system is a further development of the same idea, with still more research behind it. There's more real-world astrophysics built into the process, although I tried to make that as transparent as possible. This version is pretty generic, not tied to Traveller at all except very indirectly. It doesn't use metric either. It's a fairly flexible tool-kit; this is the one I'd recommend you pick up.

The world-design rules in GURPS Traveller: Interstellar Wars could be considered a subset of the GURPS Space 4/e system, tailored for a Traveller-like setting and with a lot of the flexibility taken out in favor of ease of use.

There are certainly further improvements that could be made to the Space 4/e system. I used some weird units in an effort to make the math as transparent as possible - if I had it to do over again (and if I wasn't writing for GURPS) I'd probably use metric instead. Meanwhile, Brett Evil has done a lot of work to make pieces of the system more scientifically rigorous - his treatment of tidal braking, for example, is math-heavy but much better than what's in the book.

[lentulus]

Originally Posted by Jon F. Zeigler

There's a natural progression in place:
...
.

Thanks, everyone. Gurps space 4e sounds like the clear winner. The latest iteration makes sense and from Jon's description seems targeted at the right points for improvement, the non-system-creation material sound more useful, and I can convert units with the best of them.

Thanks again, much appreciated.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Fnugus

I think GURPS: Space is a great book. I don't have any experience of Traveller: First In, but the Traveller: Interstellar Wars for 4th Ed. GURPS is also a very nice resource. I like their system for building spaceships better than the one from Space/SpaceShips.

There is no system for building ships in Space 4e.