Gurps Vampire vs Hunter balance concerns.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Andreas

Do the vampire characters have to be in the middle of vampire society? Couldn't they for example be on the run because of crimes they might or might not have commited against their superiors, or perhaps they could have been sent on some kind of mission?

I have only limited knowledge of Vampire: The Masquerade, but it seems to me that there are ways that the GM could make a hunter fit in with the others.

If the other PCs want to play a certain kind of campaign, and this PC makes it into a completely different kind of campaign, that is clearly disruptive.

[talonthehand]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

If the other PCs want to play a certain kind of campaign, and this PC makes it into a completely different kind of campaign, that is clearly disruptive.

Yeah, probably. For the sake of discussion though, I'll assume that the OP and their group has worked all this out. Saying "just don't play" isn't likely to work, or really help.

I'm only lightly familiar with OWoD, and not really much at all with NWoD. That said, vampires can have human servants. Even if the PC isn't actually one, it can be something they can tell the Prince of the City if it's raising their ire. The big thing to do is find the niche of "what can humans do that vampires can't", and then just slot yourself there as thoroughly as you can. If keeping the Masquerade is a big deal for the campaign, you could play as the face of the group - talking to reporters about how ridiculous it is that people keep thinking there are vampires around. After all, we live in the age of smart phones. Surely *somebody* would have snapped a picture of them by now.

[Culture20]

Originally Posted by Boge

Why would I end up being disruptive to the campaign?

You answered this youself:

Originally Posted by Boge

I should note that I expect the GM to separate me from the others. I'll have my turn while they have theirs. I won't be included in their "party", if you will. I expect to be included in a group of NPC hunters, maybe bumping into the other players somewhere along the line, but we'll have to see if we fight or if we befriend each other for whatever reason my character could be convinced to do so.

Essentially, you’re having the GM run two games with the gaming table split at all times, and the second game is just you and the GM. One of the tenets of my group is “never split the party (unless absolutely necessary)” because it ends up being very boring and players lose interest in the game as a whole. That said, if the other players are interested in an adversarial campaign like this, I’d suggest one or two of them join your hunter crew as humans.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by talonthehand

Saying "just don't play" isn't likely to work, or really help.

In my experience, it works really well. I run games for people who want to play them, and I don't play in games that I don't have any interest in. Whereas trying to please everyone when there are wildly opposed expectations never works.

I'm only lightly familiar with OWoD, and not really much at all with NWoD. That said, vampires can have human servants. Even if the PC isn't actually one, it can be something they can tell the Prince of the City if it's raising their ire. The big thing to do is find the niche of "what can humans do that vampires can't", and then just slot yourself there as thoroughly as you can. If keeping the Masquerade is a big deal for the campaign, you could play as the face of the group - talking to reporters about how ridiculous it is that people keep thinking there are vampires around. After all, we live in the age of smart phones. Surely *somebody* would have snapped a picture of them by now.

This would work better if the PCs weren't neonates. If the game is about the things neonate games tend to be about: learning to survive as kindred and finding a place in vampire society, then having a non-ghoul human associate hanging around isn't likely to be much fun.

[Boge]

Thanks for the replies. I really appreciate the participation here.

I just wish you guys understood me and the group I play with. You'd understand better on how this is likely to play out.

We are not PvPers. I do not expect much, if any PvP to play out, maybe when I first meet them, there will probably be distrust and hesitation to not kill them. But someone I trust will probably talk me into working with the other players (vampires), for the good of all of us. I've played a vampire gurps with this group before, a different time period, and it pretty much played out where a small group of vampires were trying to overthrow the head or something...I didn't really care. My character had his own agenda. But they ended up needing me, so we worked together on things. The same thing will happen here if I let it happen, which I will because player vs player makes me way too nervous. So there really won't be any disruption coming from me. If there was, I would end up dead and that would probably be the end of me in that campaign...hmmm, maybe I should just get myself killed off early.

We also often are separated in most of the campaigns we play. It's what we enjoy. We like to have control over our own thing. It often crosses paths and we group up for a moment, but then we separate again. So taking turns (meanwhile...I used to love hearing that) is commonplace for our group, and actually preferred.

I kind of like the idea of being a human pawn though, doing things they can't do or things that would be better for a human to handle. I just think vampire stuff is so stupid I'd rather just kill them though.

Gosh I'm not excited about this. If anything disrupts it, it will be my attitude, which I'm going to try my darndest to keep positive.

Thanks for the link, Phantasm. Hopefully, I can get some ideas from that, although there is no way I can make anything near that with a 200 point character.

[Refplace]

For those really wanting to help we need more info to be effective.

• Confirm is it 3rd edition or a conversion/update to 4th?
• Type of campaign, VtM allowed several types, combat, mystery. political intique, etc
• Your fav character types

[starslayer]

Ok, I'm going to ignore the parts that have already been discussed but they are still valid points so I will summarize:

1. GURPS Vampire the Mascarade, while infinitely better than the orriginal white wolf product on this matter, is an absolute point obsenity even by 3e standards. It will not convert to 4e well, if at all. Hopefully the GM is investing the time required to recapture the 'feel' of VtM with 4e numbers....

2. The concept of playing a non-vampire in a 'new vampire' game is contrary because your challenges (somehow not getting eaten by a bunch of elder vampires who are way better than you in every conceivable way except for that whole 'loosing humanity' bit).

3. Your concept of 'mattering against the freaks' is already indicative of taking a hostile attitude to the entire campaign, if your just going to sit in the corner and mope or worse have your character actively screw up things that are important to the other players its not going to be fun for anyone.

With all of that said:
Make one, or all, of the new vampire's survival important to your PC- A child, lover, parent, or even close friend trying really hard to wrap their head around the whole situation and help there companion through a rough and difficult time. How does Rambo handle his wife turning into a vampire- being a neigh-unstoppable avatar of destruction crammed into man-flesh does not help a fresh vampire feed without getting caught or killed; or does it? Roleplay it!

I would not make your character's background 'vampire hunter' but instead 'skilled fighter who knows about vampires'- this helps remove the 'we must kill the threat to our society' factor and replaces it with 'aww the mortal thinks it can help the fledgling out'.

If you can tolerate some minor supernatural advantages: consider:
Immunity: vampire blood addition : You can drink vampire blood, but will never be under the sway of the vampire who 'donated', better keep this a secret, but you'll get to enjoy the perks of being a ghoul without being someone's slave.
Zeroed (cosmic); once you leave a situation everyone forgets about you- so long as your good at fast talk you can convince even a vampire elder you should be there, and they'll never build an ongoing narrative of who you REALLY are.

[Boge]

Originally Posted by Refplace

For those really wanting to help we need more info to be effective.

• Confirm is it 3rd edition or a conversion/update to 4th?
• Type of campaign, VtM allowed several types, combat, mystery. political intique, etc
• Your fav character types

4th edition with some conversion, I guess. "Also, 'GM' has labored at length to rebalance the abilities. The point totals of you as a buffed human will be equivalent to us after we've turned, assuming we will turn, so we'll be playing as gimps until then, possibly the whole time.

'GM' has made comments about how the vampires in this setting will be vulnerable in a way, due to many factors he isn't disclosing, so we cam trust him to make it balanced."

From GM: "It's my job to balance the game. It's your job to make a character you'd enjoy playing, then come and play with a good attitude and have fun. "

That's really about all I can do. He does a decent job. There have been balance issues throughout some of the campaigns though. I'll just have to see how it plays out.

I would guess there will be more of a political focus with some combat and mystery...mostly political though, who's the big bad guy trying to take over the world, why, and what are we going to do to stop him and his group?

My favorite types of characters have been the hunter type, thief-like, stealth, long range sneak attacks, espionage, that sort of thing.


@starslayer, Can you explain the drinking blood and ghoul thing to me?

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Boge

4th edition with some conversion, I guess. "Also, 'GM' has labored at length to rebalance the abilities. The point totals of you as a buffed human will be equivalent to us after we've turned, assuming we will turn, so we'll be playing as gimps until then, possibly the whole time.

Ok, that is nice but also limits your options a bit. If they Turm they get an obvious power boost. You may have less control or other issues with your "buffed human" changeover.

Originally Posted by Boge

I would guess there will be more of a political focus with some combat and mystery...mostly political though, who's the big bad guy trying to take over the world, why, and what are we going to do to stop him and his group?

My favorite types of characters have been the hunter type, thief-like, stealth, long range sneak attacks, espionage, that sort of thing.


@starslayer, Can you explain the drinking blood and ghoul thing to me?

Ghoul first. Vampire blood is addictive and can be used to control someone. It also gives various modest boosts. Those are called Ghouls.

A character who can do things Vampires cant but will actually need is useful.
Vampires tend to be good at combat, stealth and mental influence.
Strong Will and advantages like Mind Shield will offer you some protection, and let you move in Vampire circles.
An Elder as a Patron who wants you safe for his own purposes is another option.
A reporter (maybe with a military or civil service background)who has Contacts and skills could fit your charecter preferences and the described campaign type.
Seems doable to me.

[JoelSammallahti]

Originally Posted by Dragondog

If the campaign mechanics for 4e haven't been set yet, your GM may find https://diceandlives.wordpress.com/2...rst-blog-post/ useful.

Thanks, mate! :D