Altering the Initiative Order

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Correct. You could read that final clause as: "Finally, you can use Wait to delay any of the maneuvers listed above to occur at the same time as or after friends who act after you in the combat sequence."

All the maneuvers listed in Wait, or all the maneuvers you can normally do on your turn?

In other words, are you saying that you can't Wait until after Joe acts before you start to Concentrate type of thing?

[OldSam]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

All the maneuvers listed in Wait, or all the maneuvers you can normally do on your turn?

It's certainly the first, because he is referring to the last sentence about 'Wait' on B366. Thus the allowed maneuvers would be Attack, Feint, All-Out-Attack and Ready.

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

...you can't Wait until after Joe acts before you start to Concentrate type of thing?

I'd say that's the consequence as Concentrate is not one of the listed maneuvers (and after all "wait to concentrate" sounds strange, doesn't it?) Anyway, mages can still throw a fireball or something like that with an attack maneuver triggered by wait (if the fireball has been prepared before), so they still have something to play with... ;)

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by OldSam

I'd say that's the consequence as Concentrate is not one of the listed maneuvers (and after all "wait to concentrate" sounds strange, doesn't it?) Anyway, mages can still throw a fireball or something like that with an attack maneuver triggered by wait (if the fireball has been prepared before), so they still have something to play with... ;)

It does stop you from casting a spell contingent on your allies actions. Frex "cast Resist Fire on Bob when he gets here" makes logical sense but isn't RAW.

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

It does stop you from casting a spell contingent on your allies actions. Frex "cast Resist Fire on Bob when he gets here" makes logical sense but isn't RAW.

Personally, I would make this a magical perk, similar but distinct from continuous ritual, that allows you to extend your casting by any amount less than a full turn. You must declare the condition you set to finish the casting, as if it was a wait maneuver, and even people who have not taken a wait maneuver can interrupt you, if they act between your action, and the trigger. If the trigger isn't met, the spell is lost.

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

Personally, I would make this a magical perk, similar but distinct from continuous ritual, that allows you to extend your casting by any amount less than a full turn. You must declare the condition you set to finish the casting, as if it was a wait maneuver, and even people who have not taken a wait maneuver can interrupt you, if they act between your action, and the trigger. If the trigger isn't met, the spell is lost.

But that doesn't allow you to react to the situation at hand, which is the point of the Wait.

After all, you may want to say "I wait until after my pal Joe acts, and then take a Concentrate maneuver against whomever Joe attacked, or start Concentrating to heal Joe otherwise."

[OldSam]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

Personally, I would make this a magical perk, similar but distinct from continuous ritual, that allows you to extend your casting by any amount less than a full turn. You must declare the condition you set to finish the casting, as if it was a wait maneuver ...

Fair solution IMO, if my group would ask for that kind of magical teamwork and it fits into the setting, I'd allow it.

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

... you can't Wait until after Joe acts before you start to Concentrate type of thing?

You cannot. Which makes sense if you consider that Concrentrate appears to take a 'whole' turn compared to Attacks which can be made multiple and complex in various ways.

However you could choose to operate at a lower Basic Speed so that you always go after Joe.

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

You cannot. Which makes sense if you consider that Concrentrate appears to take a 'whole' turn compared to Attacks which can be made multiple and complex in various ways.

However you could choose to operate at a lower Basic Speed so that you always go after Joe.

Yeah, I just don't like giving someone the two moves in a row option, so I guess I consider all delays to be choosing to operate at a lower Basic Speed...

[Kromm]

One of my friends here on the forums pointed out another option that some might find useful: I forgot about this post, but the perk at the very end seems like it could have applications here.

[Captain Joy]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

Yeah, I just don't like giving someone the two moves in a row option, so I guess I consider all delays to be choosing to operate at a lower Basic Speed...

I have Basic Speed 6.00, and my friends and foes have 5.75, 5.50, 5.25, and 5.00. The GM informs us it's time to go into combat rounds.

GM: 6.00 is first, choose your maneuver.
6.00: I choose to act last, as if I had a speed of only 4.75.
GM: Fine. [GM handles maneuvers for the other player's turns.]
GM: Time for 4.75's to declare maneuvers. 6.00 acting as 4.75, what do you do?
6.00: I choose to Move and Attack. [The player moves a full 6 yards and attacks.]
GM: Okay, back to the top of the order. 6.00 is first.
6.00: I Attack the same guy I just attacked.
GM: Fine.

Questions:

Was Move and Attack a legal choice for 6.00? I say yes. While not a legal option for the Wait maneuver, 6.00 technically didn't take a Wait maneuver. 6.00 simply chose not to act at their full Basic Speed.

Was it okay for 6.00 to move 6 yards, even though he chose to act at as if he was a 4.75 player. I say yes.

Was it okay for him to act at 6.00 on the next round. I say no. Once your place in the combat turn sequence is set, you can't advance it.

However, it could have gone this way:

GM: 6.00 is first, choose your maneuver.
6.00: I choose Wait. After 5.00's turn (the trigger) I will Attack a foe that is in range (the action).
GM: Fine. [GM handles maneuvers for the other player's turns.]
GM: Okay, that's 5.00's turn. 6.00, your Wait is now triggered. There are two foes in range. Pick one and Attack. [6.00 does so.]
GM: Okay, back to the top of the order. 6.00, what do you do?
6.00: I Attack the same guy I just attacked.
GM: Fine.

So, when used in this fashion, a high Basic Speed can get two full Attack maneuvers in against a lower Basic Speed foe without the lower Basic Speed foe getting a maneuver in.