Stunned after taking Wait maneuver

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

Thing is waits are a risk. Moreover that risk goes up a lot when there are other opponents about, and even more so when you are by yourself. (hence my question about is the PC by themselves, are there others around to cover them while they wait, back them up if it goes wrong etc, etc).

My problem with Wait, is like a few other Maneuvers, I rarely if ever see it used because "it's too risky to waste your turn". So I've modified some Maneuvers to make them more attractive... and some still; almost never get used because the "waste of a turn" mentality.

Originally Posted by Gnome

From B366: "You may transform your Wait into an Attack, Feint, All-Out Attack (you must specify the option before acting), or Ready maneuver."

Note... I ignore that rule as well. Too many other Maneuvers that Players might want to use on a Wait that make no sense to rule out.

You can make an All Out Attack but not Change Position? Not Move? WTF?

[Lancewholelot]

The Wait maneuver actually sees a lot of use in my games. It's usually a good option if you don't want to suffer the drawbacks of a Move and Attack and expect the foe to come to you.

[Lancewholelot]

If anything, there was an over use of the Wait maneuver in this scenario. The bear ended up grappling a second player which was followed by a third player deciding to "Wait" to attack when the bear lets go of player two. Player two and I were both like, "Uuuh, you do know the bear is only going to let go after crushing and mauling, yes?" Good times. :)

[Lancewholelot]

Big softy that I am, I did give the player who lost his waited for attack the benefit of his normal defenses immediately after making his stun recovery roll on the following turn. Normally defense is still at -4 until the next turn after recovery. In fact, I usually play it as the stunned character just skipping a turn and rolling recovery at the beginning of the next. This avoids confusion over when defenses return to normal.

[Anthony]

Wait is rather strong in situations where your opponent actually needs to attack you, because of how it interacts with your opponent's turn sequence: both the attack you used a wait for, and your next maneuver, are in the same turn for your opponent, meaning your opponent can only retreat against one of them, and may have to take a multiple defense penalty or use a weaker defense against your next maneuver.

[Lancewholelot]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Wait is rather strong in situations where your opponent actually needs to attack you, because of how it interacts with your opponent's turn sequence: both the attack you used a wait for, and your next maneuver, are in the same turn for your opponent, meaning your opponent can only retreat against one of them, and may have to take a multiple defense penalty or use a weaker defense against your next maneuver.

Not so. The waiter's attack happens before the action that triggered it. The one that triggered the wait gets their turn afterwards and their defenses renew.

[Plane]

Since you are allowed to do active defenses while stunned (albeit at -4) they at least do not count as "initiating an action" since you are REacting to another's action...

Isn't that pretty much what a Wait is though?

Maybe a good compromise is that you could still let your wait get triggered, but at -8 to skill?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Lancewholelot

Not so. The waiter's attack happens before the action that triggered it. The one that triggered the wait gets their turn afterwards and their defenses renew.

Defenses are per turn. A turn is defined as "the one-second period that stretches from when he chooses a maneuver until his next opportunity to select a maneuver" (B363). Thus, a wait that triggers after your opponent chooses a maneuver occurs during their turn, not before their turn.

[Lancewholelot]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Defenses are per turn. A turn is defined as "the one-second period that stretches from when he chooses a maneuver until his next opportunity to select a maneuver" (B363). Thus, a wait that triggers after your opponent chooses a maneuver occurs during their turn, not before their turn.

I tend to think of defense options taking effect after execution of action, since that's when weapon properties take effect on parry, though I think I do see your point. No defenses being allowed for an All Out Attack that is interrupted by a Wait seems logical, as does defense penalties for other attack options such as Committed Attack.

As far as I know though, someone doing a regular attack with an unbalanced weapon that is interrupted could choose to forgo their attack and parry instead since they had not yet executed. By that same logic, execution is the point that I've had the count for repeated defenses renew, though I concede you've a strong argument for it being otherwise.

The rules sure become fiddly when the Wait maneuver is employed. Exploitative players could possibly turn it into a GM's nightmare.

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

My problem with Wait, is like a few other Maneuvers, I rarely if ever see it used because "it's too risky to waste your turn". So I've modified some Maneuvers to make them more attractive... and some still; almost never get used because the "waste of a turn" mentality.

Fair enough.

I find that the kind of combat (and that includes stats and skills) you tend to run will make certain maneuvers more or less attractive in different games. I'm running pretty low power historical which means compared to some campaigns Defences and DR are relatively high compared to Attack and Damage, but wounds are no joke. This means that the players tend to rely more on clever tactics and building a situation (via stuff like waits and set ups) to win and not die while doing so.