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Old 07-07-2010, 05:22 PM   #61
Celti
 
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Default Re: Medieval Horse Types and Traits

This calculator says that $100 in 1872 is worth $957 in 2004 dollars (the basis for the GURPS dollar).

What kind of horse is that $60 value for?
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Old 07-07-2010, 06:28 PM   #62
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Default Re: Medieval Horse Types and Traits

I wouldn't use these prices as a base figure. In markets where supply is plentiful the price needs a negative modifier. Just like the price of gold during the gold rush.
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Old 07-07-2010, 08:58 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godogma View Post
An important thing to consider should you ever choose to use horses in an Old Western setting is that most of the prices save for anything on CF used here are vastly inappropriate.
...
Generally, if you want realistic prices for any particular setting in GURPS you have to research them yourself. The generic ones are vaguely consistent and easy to use, but don't match any one society well (except maybe ours). I have one set of figures for England around the year 1300, and another (much less complete) for Bronze Age/Iron Age antiquity.
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Old 07-07-2010, 10:45 PM   #64
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Default Re: Medieval Horse Types and Traits

@godogma
can you site your source for the prices.Its really hard to research horse prices and every bit helps. thanks in advance. At least I can use this for my 19C game.
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Old 07-08-2010, 06:18 AM   #65
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Default Re: Medieval Horse Types and Traits

Are you planning on including disadvantageous horse traits? That could be useful for determining a good price for... 'less than new' horses.

-Joshua
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Old 07-08-2010, 09:40 AM   #66
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Default Re: Medieval Horse Types and Traits

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Originally Posted by Polydamas View Post
Generally, if you want realistic prices for any particular setting in GURPS you have to research them yourself. The generic ones are vaguely consistent and easy to use, but don't match any one society well (except maybe ours). I have one set of figures for England around the year 1300, and another (much less complete) for Bronze Age/Iron Age antiquity.
Even then, having "correct" prices might very well prove impossible.
Prices varied *greatly* from town to town and country to country, according to fashion, availability, last year's drought and so on...

Even in our hyper-standardized and globalized world, it is almost impossible to find out the fixed price for any given product.
E.g. computers and phones are marketed at different prices and conditions in different countries.
A bottle of the same average-quality wine might cost 1€ if you buy it from the producer (without the bottle), or 3€ in a cheap store, or 6€ in an expensive shop, or 15€ in an ordinary Italian restaurant, or 50€ in the same Italian restaurant if the customer is American or Japanese...
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Old 07-09-2010, 02:20 AM   #67
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Default Re: Medieval Horse Types and Traits

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Originally Posted by Asta Kask View Post
I'm preparing an Ancient Greece campaign. What kind of horse would the hippeis of a city-state like Athens use? And did they shoe horses back then? Wikipedia says no, but I'm not sure I trust it.
As I recall, the celts of then or a bit later did, but by tying a leather over-shoe over the hoof, and not by fixing an iron shoe to the foot (by nails historically, and with glue for modern aluminium racing shoes).
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Old 07-09-2010, 02:38 AM   #68
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Default Re: Medieval Horse Types and Traits

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lupo View Post
Even then, having "correct" prices might very well prove impossible.
Prices varied *greatly* from town to town and country to country, according to fashion, availability, last year's drought and so on...

Even in our hyper-standardized and globalized world, it is almost impossible to find out the fixed price for any given product.
E.g. computers and phones are marketed at different prices and conditions in different countries.
A bottle of the same average-quality wine might cost 1€ if you buy it from the producer (without the bottle), or 3€ in a cheap store, or 6€ in an expensive shop, or 15€ in an ordinary Italian restaurant, or 50€ in the same Italian restaurant if the customer is American or Japanese...
I would disagree. Production Costs tend to boil down the same, up until variable costs of production (transportation, labor and acts of nature). Transportation and Marketing Cost have greatly influence pricing as of late. I'm not saying that there is an exact value for a given good, but there is a base value which has a negligible percentile difference from other items of very similar abilities (ex. smart phones).

In games, it is just a matter of making the circumstances around production aka the premises more transparent. Any good can have a change of prices, as long as there is way to account for differences.

Take the example you cited, the wine. Notice the Inventory and and Turn over Costs of each example you have given. Also consider the different overhead of each place, which goes up significantly. Not all the costs are precieved value, but there are some real substance as to why the cost is of that way.

Anyway, its prices of all other game elements should be more subject to variables and circumstances than what is printed. Although, I admit it would be a little bit text heavy if these details were furnished.

I have same complaints about irregularities on battle rifle prices when they in matters of 50-60% differences. Prices seem to be from a Producer Point of view, so Imported Guns or guns that don't have a US license of production are double the cost, which I find misrepresentative. If it is producer costs, follow producer costs and take out the importation and shipping costs from the base. Add on these modifiers per situation.
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Last edited by nik1979; 07-09-2010 at 02:42 AM.
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Old 07-09-2010, 07:01 AM   #69
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Default Re: Medieval Horse Types and Traits

Quote:
Originally Posted by nik1979 View Post
Take the example you cited, the wine. Notice the Inventory and and Turn over Costs of each example you have given. Also consider the different overhead of each place, which goes up significantly. Not all the costs are precieved value, but there are some real substance as to why the cost is of that way.
You're not giving perceived value enough credit, production costs are meaningless when it comes to luxury items, just look at the velvet rope economics and the economics of elitism.

If a horse is a tool of the masses, a common beast of burden to do work and be ridden, then its value is closely related to the costs which go into bringing it to market.
However, if a horse is a status symbol, if owning a bigger and faster horse brings with it automatic respect and reputation, if it's something you can brag about at court and in other situations with your peers, then that horse's value is magnitudes higher.


Icelander in this thread has done a nice job of quantifying value which PCs may get out of having a particular horse and there's nothing wrong with using the values and details he's set down, but just like the listed CF of any items, don't for a minute think things in any realistic setting are sold at a price point based on PC usefulness.

The horse sired by a renown stallion and foaled in a named stable will fetch a price magnitudes higher than the horse produced by some unknown breeder, even if the latter is superior in every way.
Same way as a very fine sword made by some unknown master will fetch a pittance compared to the fine sword known to be made by the famous swordsmith, even if the latter has a rather overinflated reputation.

People don't pay for innate value when they buy luxury, they pay for perceived value, which is why an ounce of gold which has an innate value of a few dollars is currently priced at around $1200 instead of its actual value of around $40.
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Old 07-09-2010, 07:12 AM   #70
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Default Re: Medieval Horse Types and Traits

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha View Post
Icelander in this thread has done a nice job of quantifying value which PCs may get out of having a particular horse and there's nothing wrong with using the values and details he's set down, but just like the listed CF of any items, don't for a minute think things in any realistic setting are sold at a price point based on PC usefulness.
As I've pointed out earlier in this thread, Low-Tech has rules for Luxury pricing, which in fact do not depend on utility and depend greatly on perceived social status of the buyers.

But that, in fact, is secondary to the GURPS $ value of the item, which is what you use when Cost intersects with rules for CPs and such.
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