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Old 01-05-2010, 07:49 AM   #51
Icelander
 
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Default Re: Medieval Horse Types and Traits

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Originally Posted by Taillefer View Post
Can someone please direct me to the rules for Luxury pricing? Can't find them in the Basic Rules, can't find them in the Low-Tech book. Or perhaps I'm just missing them....?

Thanks,

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Old 01-05-2010, 05:01 PM   #52
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Default Re: Medieval Horse Types and Traits

This thread looks very useful. Thanks, Icelander. Sorry I can't actually offer informed commentary as to the costings, though :)
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Old 01-09-2010, 08:10 PM   #53
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Default Re: Medieval Horse Types and Traits

Out of idle curiosity, Icelander, where would Mongol ponies fit in here? They were definitely smaller than the grand stallions of the knights they fought, but supposedly had superior endurance and fortitude.
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Old 01-09-2010, 11:39 PM   #54
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Default Re: Medieval Horse Types and Traits

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Out of idle curiosity, Icelander, where would Mongol ponies fit in here? They were definitely smaller than the grand stallions of the knights they fought, but supposedly had superior endurance and fortitude.
No their endurance was pretty poor. A grass diet will do that to a horse. The Mongols got around the problem by taking a dozen remounts with them.
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Old 01-10-2010, 12:54 AM   #55
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Default Re: Medieval Horse Types and Traits

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Originally Posted by Stephen Mann View Post
Out of idle curiosity, Icelander, where would Mongol ponies fit in here? They were definitely smaller than the grand stallions of the knights they fought, but supposedly had superior endurance and fortitude.
You could probably get a decent approximation using Icelander's guidelines. Using slightly-educated guesses (and Dan's comment)...

The ponies may best be represented by a Hobby - fast, strong, and small. To that we'll add:

Conditioning: Dan's comment on the general poor feed indicates Conditioning would be rare, and Superb Conditioning nearly unheard of. The best Mongol ponies would have the former, while the typical specimen would not.

Dressage: Mongol archers lived and died by their mounts, so I suspect they made a point of training them well at being such. Improved or even Advanced Dressage would be common. We'll say Improved for the typical specimen. +1 CF

Fast: The hobby is already marvelously quick, but I suspect horses for archers would be faster still. Go with Fast, but note very good specimens would have Very Fast. +1 CF

Graceful: Skip on this one; I've never heard of the Mongol ponies being particularly graceful.

Jumping: No idea. A lot of cinema represents Mongols jumping their horses over obstacles during battle, but I've no clue how historically accurate this is. Give them Jumping to be safe. +0.5 CF

Robust: Again, poor feed goes against this.

Course Running: These are weapons of war, not racers.

Endurance Running: Dan's comments imply a lack of this. You might get away with basic Endurance Running, but I'd not bother.

Stamina: Again, no. You don't train your horses for extreme stamina if your battlefield tactics consists of switching horses frequently.

Strong Specimen: Probably not. These are animals that live off the land - all that extra muscle would just mean needing more (and better) food than they likely had access to.

War Training: Yes indeed. Most specimens probably have War Training, and Advanced War Training isn't uncommon. +1 CF

Altogether, we end up with a typical specimen with the following stats.

Mongol Pony
ST: 18; DX: 10; IQ: 3; HT: 12.
Will: 12; Per: 12; Speed: 5.5; Dodge: 9; Move: 9.
SM +1 (3 hexes); 750 lbs.

Traits: Combat Reflexes; Domestic Animal; Enhanced Move 1 (Ground Speed 18); Hooves; Peripheral Vision; Quadruped; Lifting ST +2; Weak Bite.
Skills: Brawling -11; Jumping -11; Mount -14.
Cost: $9,000 (Basic Cost $2,000).
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Old 01-10-2010, 07:33 AM   #56
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Default Re: Medieval Horse Types and Traits

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Originally Posted by SuedodeuS View Post

Mongol Pony
ST: 18; DX: 10; IQ: 3; HT: 12.
Will: 12; Per: 12; Speed: 5.5; Dodge: 9; Move: 9.
SM +1 (3 hexes); 750 lbs.

Traits: Combat Reflexes; Domestic Animal; Enhanced Move 1 (Ground Speed 18); Hooves; Peripheral Vision; Quadruped; Lifting ST +2; Weak Bite.
Skills: Brawling -11; Jumping -11; Mount -14.
Cost: $9,000 (Basic Cost $2,000).
I would bring the HT10. I've seen the condition of HT11 ponies. These were fed feed corn, some kind of grass I can't remember and molasses and their HT was 11. Bare grass wouldn't let that HT go up beyond 11 in my opinion.

I recommend move to be 6. Mongol horses were intentional bred with feral Przewalski stock to maintain its resilience and self foraging ability. At 12 hands tall, I wouldnt compare it to a move of 9 (race horse).

Also these mounts were not as well trained as horses of a settled people. The Mongols would ride MANY different horses, diffusing the value of training and value any one individual horse.

Anyway Mount skill gives a +1 regardless of level. There are also very few instances for a mount roll, a mongol's superior horsemanship will roll instead.

The Horse having Survival-9 would be appropriate given the horse can actually fend for itself and look for food even in snow covered conditions.

What made mongols fast were not just their horses, it was their logistics. I would say 2/3 logistics and 1/3 horses. As nomads they were skilled and organized when traveling great distances. They all were skilled in path finding/navigation, survival (allowing them to anticipate weather, hazards, and problems) and endurance riding.

Their horses weren't special, in fact they were worse than Arab and European bred horses. They just had so much of them. If you look at their region's demographics their population density was so low (modern times was 2 per sq km). There was just so many horse to every mongol.

edit: Although These stats are more ideal for Steppe Horses. The Fine Breeds used by Horse Nomads for their elite cavalry but not the Pony.
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Last edited by nik1979; 01-11-2010 at 09:51 PM.
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Old 01-15-2010, 12:14 AM   #57
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Default Re: Medieval Horse Types and Traits

If you can find an archive of the old weekly Pyramid, SE Mortimer did a pretty good article on horses that tracks well with yours.
It was done 04 June 2004.

RH
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Old 01-15-2010, 08:03 AM   #58
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Default Re: Medieval Horse Types and Traits

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If you can find an archive of the old weekly Pyramid, SE Mortimer did a pretty good article on horses that tracks well with yours.
It was done 04 June 2004.

RH
Horse Sense. Indeed, I believe I cited it in this thread.
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Old 01-18-2010, 08:24 PM   #59
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Default Re: Medieval Horse Types and Traits

You know, this is one of those topics that I wish would be expanded, organized, and formally published. Horses are useful in so many different genres. Now that so much is coming out in .pdf format, that seems like a perfect venue. What are the chances?
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Old 07-07-2010, 05:17 PM   #60
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Default Re: Medieval Horse Types and Traits

An important thing to consider should you ever choose to use horses in an Old Western setting is that most of the prices save for anything on CF used here are vastly inappropriate.

Your average horse in Maine in 1872 was $60 US, in that same time period in California where they caught horses roughly anywhere in the state a horse could cost as low as $6-10 before training. At the same time in Texas where good horseflesh was hard to acquire because of thieves etc horses were likely to cost from $100-175.

These are of course the historical figures, and I can't quite find the link to a comparative currency converter this website has a chart of values on it that could prove useful. http://mykindred.com/cloud/TX/Documents/dollar/

~~~~~~~~~~

I have found a comparative currency converter some few minutes after I posted the first link.
The $60 dollar horse in Maine is somewhere between $899 (GDP deflator), and $957 (CPI),

The roughly $10 horse is $150 (GDP deflator) and $160(CPI), a $40 horse would be $599(GDP deflator) or $638 (CPI)... The more expensive horses from Texas of course are commensurately higher, but definitely still less expensive than the horses of medieval Europe.

~~~~~~~~~~

The prices for horses I posted are correct, however the DATES for the figures from Texas and California were from 1858 instead of 1872 and I forgot to note that, they are still useful I hope even if more mathematics are needed to put them in context to the horse price from Maine in 1872.

Last edited by Godogma; 07-07-2010 at 06:03 PM. Reason: Corrections part 2!
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