Layerd Armour and other ways of Improving DR

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Calvin

But that is very much not what I'm arguing. I'm saying that there's no reason why an extra flexible layer of armor on the vitals, joints, whatever at 3/6 coverage or less should cause DX penalties.

Realistically, you can layer armor on the outside of joints just fine (and hey, that is in fact 3/6 or lower coverage). Layering on the inside is extremely problematic. For torso armor, you can have pretty ridiculous thickness on the back, as well as on the rigid parts of the rib cage, but covering the abdomen is problematic (because it's basically the inside of a joint).

[Calvin]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Except for common sense and personal experience.

Wear twenty padded motorcycle jackets and see if your arms have the same range of motion...

Also a pectoral is a solid plate over the vitals in the upper chest...

So if it's really an issue make it flexible too.

And sure, maybe if I wore 20 motorcycle jackets I'd be rather stiff. But again, that's in no way what I'm suggesting. I'm suggesting something moderate, not the most extreme extension of what I'm suggesting. Not solid plates everywhere, flexible armour. (maybe the pectoral, but if that's really an issue for you then let's make it flexible) Not 20 layers of light leather armour, one layer rigid armor, and one layer of flexible.

The book even explicitly mentions placing mail over joints and other gaps when using the harsh gaps rules. And it does not include penalties for the entirely moderate and historical practice.

[Calvin]

Originally Posted by Anthony

but covering the abdomen is problematic (because it's basically the inside of a joint).

Yeah, the book actually covers that one by limiting the player to flexible armour on the abdomen. And you need to use flexible armour if you want to cover armour gaps, elbow, etc. Rigid armour can't fully protect there.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Calvin

Yeah, the book actually covers that one by limiting the player to flexible armour on the abdomen. And you need to use flexible armour if you want to cover armour gaps, elbow, etc. Rigid armour can't fully protect there.

I would probably just say that the exemption for limited coverage armor is "armor that does not cover locations that require flexibility does not suffer from layering penalties".

[sir_pudding]

As far as I can tell there are no rules for flexible armor that covers just the vitals in all torso locations. "Vitals" isn't on the armor table and the pectoral rule in Instant Armor is upper chest only.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

As far as I can tell there are no rules for flexible armor that covers just the vitals in all torso locations. "Vitals" isn't on the armor table and the pectoral rule in Instant Armor is upper chest only.

Why would you need a "rule" to make armor that just covers one location, even one as vaguely defined as vitals?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Why would you need a "rule" to make armor that just covers one location, even one as vaguely defined as vitals?

Because a location that's somewhat diffuse may not be possible to specifically armor.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Because a location that's somewhat diffuse may not be possible to specifically armor.

It's not diffuse. It's ill defined. This spot, this one, and this other one are not gaseous. Any part on a human body can be covered, not always with rigid armors, or without other issues like blocking senses of course.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Why would you need a "rule" to make armor that just covers one location, even one as vaguely defined as vitals?

How much does it cost? How much does weigh? What is the chance that it provides coverage to the torso as a whole?

[Calvin]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

How much does it cost? How much does weigh? What is the chance that it provides coverage to the torso as a whole?

You extrapolate the pectoral plate rules. It's simple. 1/6th the time, 1/6th the weight and cost of the larger portion. Just like literally other partial armour in low tech.