Putting a "backdoor" in protective spells.

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by Pagan

The entire Meta Magic college is your magical hacker toolkit. Why build a back door into spells when you can either cancel a spell you've cast by spending a fatigue point or using control or steal spell.

Because people can notice something is up when their spell goes away.

[Peter V. Dell'Orto]

Originally Posted by DangerousThing

But in a world where magic is real and there are professionals who will ward a place for a fee, I would think that some specialists would create a version with a back door. Think magical hackers.

So, allow people to either learn a new version of the spell or make it a technique.

[DangerousThing]

Originally Posted by Peter V. Dell'Orto

So, allow people to either learn a new version of the spell or make it a technique.

I thought that was what I was saying by suggesting that some would create a version with a back door.

Now, I wonder if magic spells could be encrypted so that another mage wouldn't be able to detect what the spell does? I would think that to do this, you'd need to create an encryption spell to encode the first one. To be fair, the encrypted spell might have to be a technique so that spells you encrypt all the time would be easy to do, but spells you haven't done the prep-work on are not as secure and may break.

I figure that if society has had magic for a while, the practitioners would start to see the same sorts of problem that computer programmers do. Only computer programs don't fireball you if you don't put in the right passcode. :)

[Peter V. Dell'Orto]

Originally Posted by DangerousThing

I thought that was what I was saying by suggesting that some would create a version with a back door.

So was I. My point was doing it on the fly would be hard. Making a special version ahead of time would be a different spell or a technique.

[Pagan]

Originally Posted by DangerousThing

I thought that was what I was saying by suggesting that some would create a version with a back door.

Now, I wonder if magic spells could be encrypted so that another mage wouldn't be able to detect what the spell does? I would think that to do this, you'd need to create an encryption spell to encode the first one. To be fair, the encrypted spell might have to be a technique so that spells you encrypt all the time would be easy to do, but spells you haven't done the prep-work on are not as secure and may break.

I figure that if society has had magic for a while, the practitioners would start to see the same sorts of problem that computer programmers do. Only computer programs don't fireball you if you don't put in the right passcode. :)

Also, spells aren't programs. You can treat them like this sure, but you are changing an Art into a Science. If that is what you are going for then I'd suggest a series of Perks (per spell) that allow you to use specialized techniques to customize the mechanical aspects of your spells such as a technique to make dispelling more difficult or easier (your backdoor).

[DangerousThing]

Originally Posted by Pagan

Also, spells aren't programs. You can treat them like this sure, but you are changing an Art into a Science. If that is what you are going for then I'd suggest a series of Perks (per spell) that allow you to use specialized techniques to customize the mechanical aspects of your spells such as a technique to make dispelling more difficult or easier (your backdoor).

Maybe spells aren't programs in your worlds...

Though actually I was thinking of analogous techniques. As their magic advances, I see many of the same problems we have with computers happening with magic.

I figure that the GURPS Magic spells will be the first couple of magical TL spells and they would improve as society became more advanced.

The OP specifically said that the magical society had the scientific method. I figure that eventually mages would turn it on their own spells and figure out how they work.

[Pagan]

You're making a couple of arrogant assumptions.

First, I challenge you to prove this from the OP:

Originally Posted by DangerousThing

The OP specifically said that the magical society had the scientific method.

You're the one that put a modern spin on the OP post. You likened it to computers and hacking. You overlaid your vision of how magic would evolve on the OP situation. You took the word "backdoor" and decided it meant modern day or future, not, just an alternate way to manipulate a spell.

Secondly,

Originally Posted by DangerousThing

I figure that eventually mages would turn it on their own spells and figure out how they work.

Why would you assume this? It's magic. They could understand how to use it for millennium and never figure out how or why it works. That may be how things work in YOUR worlds but it is by no means universal

[Railstar]

Originally Posted by DangerousThing

One thing I would suggest that you NOT do is to threaten or hurt the spellcaster. Or try to do him harm.

He's operating a security firm and he's better at it than you could be or else you could get through his spells. Were I him, I'd have defenses against personal attack on himself or his employees. I might also have some ways of checking to see if my mind has been interfered with and a way of recording which spells were used.

I just want to emphasise this. This so much.

This guy is definitely going to be more protected than the guy you need his help to reach.

[D10]

Cant you just ... do your thing when hes out of this myriad of protections ?

[DangerousThing]

Originally Posted by Pagan

You're making a couple of arrogant assumptions.

First, I challenge you to prove this from the OP:



You're the one that put a modern spin on the OP post. You likened it to computers and hacking. You overlaid your vision of how magic would evolve on the OP situation. You took the word "backdoor" and decided it meant modern day or future, not, just an alternate way to manipulate a spell.

Secondly,


Why would you assume this? It's magic. They could understand how to use it for millennium and never figure out how or why it works. That may be how things work in YOUR worlds but it is by no means universal

First, I made a mistake because I'm following a couple of magic threads. The one I was thinking about was if a magical world (highly developed) was atttacked by a TL 9 world. My mistake, and sorry for the confusion.

Secondly, if you allow the researching of new spells, then magic has some laws, rules, or habits. The college of meta-magic tends to convince me of this.

And I stand by my statement that if a magical society develops, it will run into the same types of problems that our society has seen. I doubt that any society of humans would prove so stagnant that after using it for millennia it would still be so unknown.