Mixing Ritual Path Magic and Divine Favor... Can it be done?

[Raekai]

Yes, you heard me right. Maybe I'm crazy! But I had an idea that I wanted to share. Right now, I am in the process of converting all spells (in flavor) from Magic to work with Ritual Path Magic. Well, then I began thinking that I don't want to make a bazillion different spells and powers and abilities and so on. I want my druids to be able to use RPM spells with Divine Favor. So... Here's how I figure it:

Step One: Convert all Greater effects into Lesser effects.
Step Two: Take off 10% of that cost for it being "divine".

Yes, you heard me right. Ten percent off of the whole thing. Why? Because it's Divine Favor and you have to work with all those rules to get it right and, in my opinion, it seems to balance decently.

Thoughts? Opinions? Go ahead and tell me that you think it's stupid. Maybe it is! It's just something that I thought up. Because I'm lazy. “I choose a lazy person to do a hard job. Because a lazy person will find an easy way to do it.” ― Bill Gates

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Raekai

Yes, you heard me right. Maybe I'm crazy! But I had an idea that I wanted to share. Right now, I am in the process of converting all spells (in flavor) from Magic to work with Ritual Path Magic. Well, then I began thinking that I don't want to make a bazillion different spells and powers and abilities and so on. I want my druids to be able to use RPM spells with Divine Favor. So... Here's how I figure it:

Step One: Convert all Greater effects into Lesser effects.
Step Two: Take off 10% of that cost for it being "divine".

Yes, you heard me right. Ten percent off of the whole thing. Why? Because it's Divine Favor and you have to work with all those rules to get it right and, in my opinion, it seems to balance decently.

This is one way to do it. Keep in mind that the reduction of Greater Effects into Lesser ones can make things realllllyyyy wonky. I don't suggest you do that.

Since I used both of these books pretty much exclusively in my campaign for "arcane" and "divine" magic I'll tell you my way. :-D

1) Learned Prayer (Mana Reserve) - I figure how much a Energy Reserve (Mana Reserve) the paragon can buy with his Divine Favor. For example, a paragon with Divine Favor 11 could have a Energy Reserve (Mana Reserve) 30.
2) I allow the use of Meditative Magic for living a "holy life" from Fantasy and let them store up those points as a separate mana reserve they can tap as if it is there own. This makes for CRAZY miracles the theurgist (divine caster) can pull out of no where.
3) Using the Learned Prayer above allow a petitioning paragon to roll his reaction and see how much extra mana his god grants. I used 5 for Neutral, 11 for Good, 18 for Very Good, and 43 for Excellent. It has so far worked quite well.

[Raekai]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

This is one way to do it. Keep in mind that the reduction of Greater Effects into Lesser ones can make things realllllyyyy wonky. I don't suggest you do that.

Since I used both of these books pretty much exclusively in my campaign for "arcane" and "divine" magic I'll tell you my way. :-D

1) Learned Prayer (Mana Reserve) - I figure how much a Energy Reserve (Mana Reserve) the paragon can buy with his Divine Favor. For example, a paragon with Divine Favor 11 could have a Energy Reserve (Mana Reserve) 30.
2) I allow the use of Meditative Magic for living a "holy life" from Fantasy and let them store up those points as a separate mana reserve they can tap as if it is there own. This makes for CRAZY miracles the theurgist (divine caster) can pull out of no where.
3) Using the Learned Prayer above allow a petitioning paragon to roll his reaction and see how much extra mana his god grants. I used 5 for Neutral, 11 for Good, 18 for Very Good, and 43 for Excellent. It has so far worked quite well.

I... I think I... I love you... It's simpler, really. Wow. I really like how you've managed it. That's a great balance! This couldn't get any better! Unless... You also have a secret trick for balancing regular powers too? Think psionics. Haha.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

3) Using the Learned Prayer above allow a petitioning paragon to roll his reaction and see how much extra mana his god grants. I used 5 for Neutral, 11 for Good, 18 for Very Good, and 43 for Excellent. It has so far worked quite well.

How did you arrive at these numbers?

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Raekai

I... I think I... I love you... It's simpler, really. Wow. I really like how you've managed it. That's a great balance! This couldn't get any better!

Look, I think we should just be friends. My girlfriend wouldn't be happy about me having another boyfriend. Honestly I can't keep up with both of 'em sometimes. ;-)

Originally Posted by Raekai

Unless... You also have a secret trick for balancing regular powers too? Think psionics. Haha.

Yeah, but that's easy - buy the ability as a alternative learned prayer. You worship a good of mind powers? Neat - take Suggestion 7 as a Alternative ability of Divine Favor (The Great Intelligence) 12. Of course, your power would then have issues with psi dampers, anti-psi, etc. and you'd lose access if your god was ****** at you.

Originally Posted by Refplace

How did you arrive at these numbers?

Divine Favor p. 9 lists how to make new Learned Prayers I simply took the lowest rung and used the highest point value of that reaction.

The lowest is Neutral and uses Divine Favor 3 whose Learned Prayer cost is 1-15. Energy Reserve (Mana Reserve) is 3/level so 5. Good uses Divine Favor 7 whose Learned Prayer cost is 26-35 so 11. And so on.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

Divine Favor p. 9 lists how to make new Learned Prayers I simply took the lowest rung and used the highest point value of that reaction.

The lowest is Neutral and uses Divine Favor 3 whose Learned Prayer cost is 1-15. Energy Reserve (Mana Reserve) is 3/level so 5. Good uses Divine Favor 7 whose Learned Prayer cost is 26-35 so 11. And so on.

Ah so you based the point cost of the ER value. OK got it.

[Raekai]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

Look, I think we should just be friends. My girlfriend wouldn't be happy about me having another boyfriend. Honestly I can't keep up with both of 'em sometimes. ;-)

Darn! That'll have to do though. Just remember... I'm always riiiight here! ;) Bahahaha!

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

Yeah, but that's easy - buy the ability as a alternative learned prayer. You worship a good of mind powers? Neat - take Suggestion 7 as a Alternative ability of Divine Favor (The Great Intelligence) 12. Of course, your power would then have issues with psi dampers, anti-psi, etc. and you'd lose access if your god was ****** at you.

No, no. I meant a way to balance some kind of Psionics system to work evenly alongside arcane and divine RPM. Psionics and magic are not necessarily opposites, but they are definitely not the same. I would never build psionics using magic! Will using psionic powers as written be able to keep pace with aRPM and dRPM?

EDIT: Also, could you go further into that Mana Reserve and Learned Prayer idea? How does that work? How does it recharge? Just looking for a little clarification! Thanks!

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Raekai

Darn! That'll have to do though. Just remember... I'm always riiiight here! ;) Bahahaha!

I'll a-keep that in mind.

Originally Posted by Raekai

No, no. I meant a way to balance some kind of Psionics system to work evenly alongside arcane and divine RPM. Psionics and magic are not necessarily opposites, but they are definitely not the same. I would never build psionics using magic! Will using psionic powers as written be able to keep pace with aRPM and dRPM?

I've 2 campaigns that feature a mix of RPM, Divine Favor, Psi, Chi, and a few other odds and ends. They keep up. Just make sure you let the others buy ERs to keep up when needed. RPM can get out of hand - but you're the GM - keep it in line. I have the most trouble from psis to be perfectly honest. My players LOVE using extra effort to devastating effect.

[Refplace]

Psi and Divine Favor are both Power based models so should be easy enough to balance agaisnt each other.
Use a core power and AA like Divine favor or the more flexible but math intensive approach from Psionic Powers.
The latter is less versatile then RPM but could be pretty powerful.

[Pragmatic]

From what I understand, last time I asked this question, wasn't it hard to balance the power-per-point between RPM and DivF?

I asked in regards to replacing Wizards with [RPM] Adepts in Dungeon Fantasy, and was told that the Adepts would be weak compared to the (Pyramid article) Saints.