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Old 07-28-2019, 01:45 PM   #231
Dalillama
 
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Default Re: So What IS ruined after an Apocalypse?

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Originally Posted by giant.robot View Post
Small scale solar thermal power can use sterling engines to do the thermal-to-mechanical energy conversion.
I've seen a patent from TL 5 for running a printing press in precisely such a fashion.
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Boiling water is only going to take care of bacteria, viruses and similar contaminants that will either be killed or have their molecular structure disrupted via temperatures of 100C or less. If your water supply is contaminated you should always both filter and boil it before either drinking it or using it to cook. And you should generally cook in a different container than the one you use to purify.
Depends on your values for 'contaminated'. As long as you're not dealing with radioactive fallout, most apocalypses aren't going to put anything into the water that wasn't there before, and far and away the most common problems with bad water are caused by microorganisms.

Last edited by Dalillama; 07-28-2019 at 04:54 PM.
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Old 07-28-2019, 02:32 PM   #232
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Default Re: So What IS ruined after an Apocalypse?

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far and away the most common problems with bad water are caused by microorganisms.
Next most common is arsenic in groundwater: 137 million people are affected, in seventy countries.
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Old 07-28-2019, 05:00 PM   #233
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Next most common is arsenic in groundwater: 137 million people are affected, in seventy countries.
Three things:
1)137 million people is just a hair over 0.2% of the global population. Compared to the number of people who risk disease vectors in their water, this is miniscule, and basically irrelevant except in particular extremely localised regions.
2)Those regions are generally near certain mining or industrial sites; i.e. the contamination is human-caused, and exception already noted above
3)Except in the most extreme cases, arsenic in the groundwater causes things like somewhat elevated cancer rates, which is bad but not something that's going to be of huge concern to post-apocalyptic communities, not like dysentery.
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Old 07-28-2019, 08:17 PM   #234
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Default Re: So What IS ruined after an Apocalypse?

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You're right about solar electric but solar thermal is a different story. There's been a lot of solar thermal inventions in the past 50-60 years that are easily maintainable with TL5 levels of technology.
  • Solar ovens are really handy and require no fuel. You can make them out of cardboard boxes and aluminum foil in a pinch. They can boil water (making it safe to drink) and cook food.
  • Solar thermal power is more involved than simple solar ovens but it's a similar principal. Small scale solar thermal power can use sterling engines to do the thermal-to-mechanical energy conversion.
  • At the far end of TL5 technology (two unlike conductors) you can have thermoelectric generators. They have terrible efficiency and need non-trivial chemistry but they exist commercially and could be adapted for use in solar thermal systems for electrical generation
  • Simple solar water heaters can make for more comfortable living and require few if any movie parts.

Besides solar and wind small scale hydro power can work for smaller settlements. A water source and a turbine running a generator will provide a fair amount of power.
Interesting. This is something I had not considered to be honest.
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Old 07-28-2019, 09:31 PM   #235
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Default Re: So What IS ruined after an Apocalypse?

Here's an article about TL5 solar power
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Old 07-28-2019, 09:56 PM   #236
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Default Re: So What IS ruined after an Apocalypse?

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Three things:
1)137 million people is just a hair over 0.2% of the global population. Compared to the number of people who risk disease vectors in their water, this is miniscule, and basically irrelevant except in particular extremely localised regions.
Yes.
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2)Those regions are generally near certain mining or industrial sites; i.e. the contamination is human-caused, and exception already noted above
Well, there is also the Ganges Delta, the La Pampa region of Argentina, the US South-West….

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arseni...tion_areas.png
Quote:
3)Except in the most extreme cases, arsenic in the groundwater causes things like somewhat elevated cancer rates, which is bad but not something that's going to be of huge concern to post-apocalyptic communities, not like dysentery.
Just so. Contamination of drinking water with microbes is overwhelmingly the issue of concern.
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Old 07-29-2019, 10:52 AM   #237
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Default Re: So What IS ruined after an Apocalypse?

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Interesting. This is something I had not considered to be honest.
GURPS' TLs don't make a good distinction between level of technical/scientific knowledge and level of infrastructure. A post-apocalyptic society can lead a TL4 agrarian existence but still have a TL8 level of knowledge. Just because there's no gas or electricity doesn't mean the society magically gets dumber.

I think this a problem in most games with TL ratings. Even the GURPS 4e additions like TL 4+1 or something don't really provide a good definition of knowledge vs infrastructure. In Traveller for instance you have a star spanning empire with fusion engines, reactionless thrusters, and FTL drives but individual worlds with like a TL 5 rating. That world's industry might be limited to TL 5 in general but if there's contact with Travellers/Imperium they know about higher TL stuff.
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Old 07-29-2019, 05:42 PM   #238
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Default Re: So What IS ruined after an Apocalypse?

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Originally Posted by giant.robot View Post
GURPS' TLs don't make a good distinction between level of technical/scientific knowledge and level of infrastructure. A post-apocalyptic society can lead a TL4 agrarian existence but still have a TL8 level of knowledge. Just because there's no gas or electricity doesn't mean the society magically gets dumber.

I think this a problem in most games with TL ratings. Even the GURPS 4e additions like TL 4+1 or something don't really provide a good definition of knowledge vs infrastructure. In Traveller for instance you have a star spanning empire with fusion engines, reactionless thrusters, and FTL drives but individual worlds with like a TL 5 rating. That world's industry might be limited to TL 5 in general but if there's contact with Travellers/Imperium they know about higher TL stuff.
I think this is something that would likely be used in communities where they cannot generate electricity. Very cool. Thanks for sharing.
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Old 07-30-2019, 10:18 AM   #239
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Default Re: So What IS ruined after an Apocalypse?

Here's a series that might give some insight on the difficulty in reviving dead electronics:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...lisi_x7-Ut_-w7

If the link doesn't work, just search YouTube for "CuriousMarc AGC."
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Old 07-30-2019, 05:13 PM   #240
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Default Re: So What IS ruined after an Apocalypse?

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Originally Posted by ColBosch View Post
Here's a series that might give some insight on the difficulty in reviving dead electronics:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...lisi_x7-Ut_-w7

If the link doesn't work, just search YouTube for "CuriousMarc AGC."
VERY cool. Exactly the kind of stuff I was looking for.
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