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Old 08-17-2014, 04:05 AM   #11
sir_pudding
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Default Re: DF: Racial lenses mandatory; standardized

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Originally Posted by The Benj View Post
It IS being a Dwarf.
That's not the Dwarf racial template.
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Old 08-17-2014, 04:07 AM   #12
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Default Re: DF: Racial lenses mandatory; standardized

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
That's not the Dwarf racial template.
As he said in his first post, he doesn't have DF3, so doesn't have access to the official Dwarf template.
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Old 08-17-2014, 04:08 AM   #13
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Default Re: DF: Racial lenses mandatory; standardized

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
That's not the Dwarf racial template.
Oof, racist. :P

I think this is A: just an example, and B: Norph's vision of what their Dwarves will be like, not a direct port of whichever Dwarves you're thinking of.
It's not the Human racial template either.
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Old 08-17-2014, 04:14 AM   #14
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Default Re: DF: Racial lenses mandatory; standardized

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Originally Posted by The Benj View Post
Oof, racist. :P

I think this is A: just an example, and B: Norph's vision of what their Dwarves will be like, not a direct port of whichever Dwarves you're thinking of.
It's not the Human racial template either.
Is this a DF thread? This would make more sense to me if it was a 50 point lens for humans that included Human [0] plus 50 points in humany stuff and a 50 point lens for Dwarfs that includes Dwarf [20] plus [30] in dwarfy stuff.
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Old 08-17-2014, 04:25 AM   #15
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Default Re: DF: Racial lenses mandatory; standardized

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Is this a DF thread? This would make more sense to me if it was a 50 point lens for humans that included Human [0] plus 50 points in humany stuff and a 50 point lens for Dwarfs that includes Dwarf [20] plus [30] in dwarfy stuff.
That's essentially what this is, but the mandatory "Dwarf" traits he's got are ST +1, IQ +1, and Deep Expertise 1.
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Old 08-17-2014, 11:56 PM   #16
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Default Re: DF: Racial lenses mandatory; standardized

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Originally Posted by The Benj View Post
That's essentially what this is, but the mandatory "Dwarf" traits he's got are ST +1, IQ +1, and Deep Expertise 1.
Which I'll admit I just made up on the spot. The basic idea is replacing the DF3 templates (which have varying costs) with ones that are a standard 50 points, thereby allowing my players to choose basically any creature under the sun (assuming I've created the template for it or they do and I sign off on it). These will probably differ from both the ones in DF3 and from their D&D forebears, but hopefully they'll make thematic sense. After all, there's no such thing as Elves or Lizardmen in this reality (aside from the British royal family).

Maybe this is a solution to a problem that exists only in my head, though.
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Old 08-18-2014, 12:09 AM   #17
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Default Re: DF: Racial lenses mandatory; standardized

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Originally Posted by NorphTehDwarf View Post
Which I'll admit I just made up on the spot. The basic idea is replacing the DF3 templates (which have varying costs) with ones that are a standard 50 points, thereby allowing my players to choose basically any creature under the sun (assuming I've created the template for it or they do and I sign off on it). These will probably differ from both the ones in DF3 and from their D&D forebears, but hopefully they'll make thematic sense. After all, there's no such thing as Elves or Lizardmen in this reality (aside from the British royal family).

Maybe this is a solution to a problem that exists only in my head, though.
No, I think I was just being dense. I thought you were proposing that humans have the normal [0] template in your game and that human PCs get 50 points of human traits, other races would get some extra points to do this too and so on. This is sort of how I did my DF game (which, in retrospect I rather I hadn't) in that I gave 300 points for Proffession, Race and/or Lens, and let characters spend any leftover points on traits on their Proffession template or Power-Ups.
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Old 08-18-2014, 12:10 AM   #18
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Default Re: DF: Racial lenses mandatory; standardized

One of the issues you will run into is that certain racial templates won't mix well with certain character templates no matter what you do. If you take Halfling (ST-3) and try to pair it with most any combat template (Knight, Swashbucker, even Martial Artist) the two just won't work together and will require further reworking of the character, which means more point juggling and less "just take one of each template and get on with it." Similar problems persist no matter the combination of Race and Character template, though usually to a lesser extent; any racial template which might have a minus to ST or DX has repercussions to combative character templates; any race with IQ penalties significantly affects all caster templates; any race with Magery automatically affects the point cost of the Wizard due to overlap; etc., etc., etc.

The only way around it is to take away the attribute bonuses, and maybe some of the characteristic advantages and disadvantages, but then you are essentially turning the racial template into a rubber mask with no real meaning.

I'd toyed around with this idea, of re-tailoring the racial templates to have a specific cost (I was thinking of going for 25 for most, 50 for a few), but no matter how I looked at it I never found a mix that I liked. It always requires player and GM action to mesh the racial template with the character template, and if it's going to require active intervention anyways then rewriting the templates gains you nothing unless you really just want to rewrite the templates.

The only idea I had that meshed well was to create individual racial templates for each character template cross-over, similar to the Mixed Profession templates from DF3, where you would have an Elf-Knight template which would be slightly different than the Elf-Wizard template. This basically front-loads the intervention required for each combination and results in a *LOT* more work for the poor GM.
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