[IW] Ordinary Worlds with valuables!

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by fredtheobviouspseudonym

Normandy was an English possession from the 14-teens through about 1449-50. A failed Joan of Arc crusade could well have left it in English hands.

Gascony would, of course, remain English.

Also a radically altered ending to the Hundred Years War could toss chunks of Western France into British hands with little regard to anything other than who has troops where and how this was reflected in the peace treaty.

[AlexanderHowl]

I wonder what would have happened if the English had offered to marry their young King to Joan of Arc rather than executing her in 1431? While she might have said no, think of the trauma that would have occurred if the Maiden of Orleans had betrayed the French Crown to become the Queen of England? Of course, she would have dominated Henry VI, and England, without a doubt, but she would have probably conquered France for England, destroyed every other enemy of England, and prevented the extinction of the House of Lancaster.

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

I wonder what would have happened if the English had offered to marry their young King to Joan of Arc rather than executing her in 1431? While she might have said no, think of the trauma that would have occurred if the Maiden of Orleans had betrayed the French Crown to become the Queen of England? Of course, she would have dominated Henry VI, and England, without a doubt, but she would have probably conquered France for England, destroyed every other enemy of England, and prevented the extinction of the House of Lancaster.

From what I know of the existing sources, she would likely have said no, but then again, I cannot be absolutely certain of the accuracy of those sources in regard to a suggestion like that. I have difficulty seeing the English making the offer, though, unless someone convinced them that Joan was of royal blood (perhaps they became convinced of some variant of the Priory of Sion hoax, with Joan being descended from the Merovingians, and the Merovingians being descended from Christ by way of his wife, Mary Magdalene (a heretical idea at the time, but far from the strangest thing to show up in an alternate history).

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

I wonder what would have happened if the English had offered to marry their young King to Joan of Arc rather than executing her in 1431? While she might have said no, think of the trauma that would have occurred if the Maiden of Orleans had betrayed the French Crown to become the Queen of England? Of course, she would have dominated Henry VI, and England, without a doubt, but she would have probably conquered France for England, destroyed every other enemy of England, and prevented the extinction of the House of Lancaster.

Are you aware that there is a traditional story that Joan of Arc showed up a decade or so later husband and child in tow? Everybody, excluding those who'd lose money by her being alive, recognised her as Joan, including the King, high churchmen, and close relatives. Look for Butler's Myth of the Magus (I'll check that title and correct if need be). Butler's account is the most accessible and complete in English.

[AlexanderHowl]

Yes, I am aware of it, as well as a few confirmed hoaxes perpetuated by her brothers. Joan of Arc surviving would probably not have changed history, especially since the French had the momentum by 1431. Joan of Arc becoming Queen of England would have changed history, especially since her understanding of the French commanders would have allowed her victories against the French that would have caused French morale to shatter. Of course, the question would be what valuables would be unique to that world?

If Joan of Arc had married Henry VI and conquered France, one of the consequences might have been the preservation of the Occitan language, as there would not have likely been the Vergonha, the official policy starting in 1539 by the French government to annihilate non-French languages within France. The English would have likely not cared and may have actually promoted the Occitan language within Occitania in order to prevent a cohesive French identity (and might well have promoted the other languages of France, such as Breton and Ligurian, for similar reasons). When printing started to become widespread throughout the English Empire, then you would have had an explosion of literature in French in the minority languages that was unknown in Homeline. People who would have felt uncomfortable communicating in French would have found their voice in the languages of their ancestors.

[Astromancer]

Try this, Galen, the Roman world's most famous physician, also wrote extensive philosophical tracts. These were lost when the Temple of Peace, which contained substantial libraries, burned down. Finding an unburnt Temple of Peace and copying these texts would likely be of interest to many acedemics. Further, the libraries of the Temple of Peace had rich selections of now lost history and literature, just the sort of thing Homeline would want recovered.

Note: the temple might be dedicated to Peace, but third century Rome sure wasn't.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

Try this, Galen, the Roman world's most famous physician, also wrote extensive philosophical tracts. These were lost when the Temple of Peace, which contained substantial libraries, burned down. Finding an unburnt Temple of Peace and copying these texts would likely be of interest to many acedemics. Further, the libraries of the Temple of Peace had rich selections of now lost history and literature, just the sort of thing Homeline would want recovered.

Note: the temple might be dedicated to Peace, but third century Rome sure wasn't.

These sorts of jobs are reasonable for a setting where there aren't many timelines, or they've all reached the same now, or in an "early" phase after the discovery of time travel, but the official IW setting has Echoes and has known about them for years.

Any echo that predates a major bookburning has already seen its influx of researchers with cameras recovering the lost material. Lost works can only still be lost if the were both composed and destroyed between the dates of the two closest together known Echoes bracketing their period of existence. Which would also be the period a divergence point would need to fall into in order for them to survive on a parallel with a changed history.

The best Infinity can probably do for a recovery mission these days is send the team after a single work - Echo NNN's history is about to pass the point this lost work was composed, go to the dress rehearsal for the premier and photograph a copy of the script, without disrupting it enough to change the premier date and shift the timeline. No of course we can't wait 12 months and buy a copy afterwards.

[Astromancer]

Good points malloyd. But my real goal was to get your PCs into trouble in late classical Rome. You have to admit it's hard to beat Rome for exotic chaos mixed with serious danger.

[Flyndaran]

Has anyone tried to create categories for this thread?
Valuables: Information, raw materials, finished products, unique art, people, animals/plants, tourism, etc.

Or am I the only one that feels it would even help clarify and focus things?

[Astromancer]

Here's a juicy target. The Summer Palace of the later Manchu emperors was burnt to the ground by the Brits. The palace was filled with the finest art treasures of China. Heck the buildings and grounds were seen as a treasure. High quality photographs of the complex would be joyfully welcomed by Homeline's art community and the Chinese.

Of course, the Summer Palace was a semi-sacred space, people could be killed for trespassing. Getting good photos or rescuing art treasures would be dangerous.