[Ultra-Tech/Fantasy] The One Ring Invisibility vs. TL9 Hyperspectral Goggles?

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by Johnny1A.2

No, you're pretty much spot on. Hobbits are Men, but the Fall of Man rests somewhat more lightly on them than most of us, for some reason, and that gives them a certain resistance to the Ring (and similar things, like the gold-lust associated with dragon-gold, which Bilbo threw off fairly quickly).

IIRC, it's because the hobbits represent rural English folk to Tolkien, and were thus the least corruptible of the Mannish peoples, because that was the sort of lifestyle he considered best.

[Johnny1A.2]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

IIRC, it's because the hobbits represent rural English folk to Tolkien, and were thus the least corruptible of the Mannish peoples, because that was the sort of lifestyle he considered best.

No.

Tolkien did indeed base the Shire, to a certain degree, on rural England around the turn of the 19/20C, but it was not that he thought they were idyllic. He did think that lifestyle had some positive elements, but he also thought they were self-absorbed and often small-minded, too. He incorporated that into the Hobbits of the Shire as well.

Note that Sam Gamgee is noble of spirit, courageous, capable of great love...and also suspicious of anything different, too quick to judge others, and (at least initially) small minded.

Hobbits' strength, as a rule, is precisely their lack of desire for greatness and strength.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by Verjigorm

So, lots of Numeroreans are appointed to important posts through the west when Aragorn becomes king. In the ensuing generations of his progeny, Numeroreans remain the oligarchs of Gondor, and they enforce the seperation of races. What few elves remain in middle earth live in "safe zones" that are draconically enforced by the rangers, with trespassers dealt with severely.

The population of Noldi continues to dwindle, and they increasingly pass to the West to avoid the horrific nightmare Gondor has become.

Actually what Tolkien thought was that the Reunified Kingdom would simply become a normal human empire for Aragorn's descendants. The earlier Numenoreans were, if you remember given Sauron's direct attention when he spent his time as an Evil Vizier to the Kings of Numenor. That doesn't mean future-unspecified-Realms-In-Exile will be necessarily a nice place. But that Ar-Pharazon's Numenor was like the lands of the Easterlings or Haradrim or worse. Probably worse as Sauron put more attention to it. It may have been as close as mere humans could get to being a real Mordor. But it wouldn't be that way for Aragorn who was an idealized King. For his descendants it would be as I said a normal empire. Not like Ar-Pharazon's and not without it's good qualities. But definitely with all the faults of empires.

Given that, the scenario you give is not necessarily implausible and might be worth doing if you feel like it.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by Zeta Blaze

@Flyndaran
It is not so much a lack of ambition hobbits have a more or less normal share of that. No it is there lack of desire for conflict and dominion that shapes them and shields them from the ring. Every hobbit wants to become skilled and respected and live a good life simple life of food rest trinkets and just enough work to be interesting. But ruling another leading armies and kingdoms has no draw. Look a Gollum when it comes down to it he was eagerly striving for a very hobbit way of life under the mountain in his little hole wanting only meat fish his little treasures and of coarse his precious. the ring twisted his desires and ambitions but it couldn't create a need to rule only twist to murder a love of home an hearth.

It actually did create a need to rule. It made Smeagol use the powers of the ring to become a petty-blackmailer until the chieftainess decided he needed to be banished.

What it didn't create is a need to rule the world.

[Gedrin]

Even among those who resist the lure of The One Ring, there's generally a "get it away from me!" vibe. Gandalf and Gladriel both resit it, but don't even want to look at the thing afterward. Everyone who actually touches it, goes batty in the end, except Sam (who gets rid of it as soon as he can). These people are the heroes of their age and they win out by getting the heck away from the thing.

Using one's own will to wrest control of the Ring isn't something that seems at all feasible.

However, if I were using The One Ring in a campaign, I'd definitely lie to my players and tell them that it was.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Gedrin

Even among those who resist the lure of The One Ring, there's generally a "get it away from me!" vibe. Gandalf and Gladriel both resit it, but don't even want to look at the thing afterward. Everyone who actually touches it, goes batty in the end, except Sam (who gets rid of it as soon as he can). These people are the heroes of their age and they win out by getting the heck away from the thing.

Using one's own will to wrest control of the Ring isn't something that seems at all feasible.

It's feasible. But of you could only do that by giving sway to your own darkest desires.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by Gedrin

Even among those who resist the lure of The One Ring, there's generally a "get it away from me!" vibe. Gandalf and Gladriel both resit it, but don't even want to look at the thing afterward. Everyone who actually touches it, goes batty in the end, except Sam (who gets rid of it as soon as he can). These people are the heroes of their age and they win out by getting the heck away from the thing.

Using one's own will to wrest control of the Ring isn't something that seems at all feasible.

However, if I were using The One Ring in a campaign, I'd definitely lie to my players and tell them that it was.

Sam prevails only because there is just something funny about being the greatest gardener in Middle Earth. Tolkien would probably say that humor and humility are intertwined.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

Sam prevails only because there is just something funny about being the greatest gardener in Middle Earth. Tolkien would probably say that humor and humility are intertwined.

Which shows just how little Tolkien knew about garderning and gardners. They're just as petty, envious, and full of one upmanship as any regional politicians.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Which shows just how little Tolkien knew about garderning and gardners. They're just as petty, envious, and full of one upmanship as any regional politicians.

Well Sam was a mite idealized. But that reminds me of an essay Lewis wrote where he said roughly that anyone who thinks culture is morally invigorating has not met many Oxbridge dons.

But yes, there is nothing virtuous about poverty any more then there is anything virtuous about power; it is what you do with it that matters.

But I guess it was just Sam that knew that there was something funny about being the greatest gardener in Middle Earth. I suppose hypothetically an Emperor who really did know that his position was still not much above that of the greatest gardener in Middle Earth would laugh too.

Remember in Magician's Nephew how when the cabby was made King of Narnia one of the things he was most pleased with was not being a King but that he could now talk to his horse?

[Flyndaran]

His greatest ambitions and dreams always revolved around helping, not controlling, ordering, or possessing.
That would have been downright inconceivable to the ring/Sauron.