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Old 05-03-2017, 10:45 AM   #1
Kelly Pedersen
 
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Default Detect Advantage: Transient or Switchable?

I was building an ability using Detect, and it occurred to me that I'm not sure whether Detect is normally transient (that is, it works once when activated, does its thing, and turns off on its own) or switchable (meaning, its activated by the user, and stays on until they choose to turn it off again).

I think the description in Basic leans more towards transient - you get one Sense roll, which potentially finds whatever, then turns off. If you want to keep sensing stuff, you have to keep making new rolls every turn. But I could see an argument to be made for switchable, allowing you to make one Sense roll when you first turn Detect on, and then, as long as you keep concentrating, you can keep detecting things inside your range, "noticing" them whenever they come within the range established by your first Sense roll.

What do people think? Is Detect transient or switchable by default? And if it's transient, what would be the appropriate value of an enhancement to make it switchable? I'm thinking +50%, personally, but that's just a hunch.
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Old 05-03-2017, 11:43 AM   #2
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Default Re: Detect Advantage: Transient or Switchable?

Quote:
But I could see an argument to be made for switchable, allowing you to make one Sense roll when you first turn Detect on, and then, as long as you keep concentrating, you can keep detecting things inside your range, "noticing" them whenever they come within the range established by your first Sense roll.
I think vanilla Detect is more akin to a single sonar 'ping'.

Quote:
And if it's transient, what would be the appropriate value of an enhancement to make it switchable?
Reflexive, +40% with Switchable, +10% for +44%, perhaps?
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Old 05-03-2017, 11:46 AM   #3
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Default Re: Detect Advantage: Transient or Switchable?

I think its Transient but you can keep it up with concentration so a series of transient like if your trying to locate something.
Reflexive is good for making it more continuous since it becomes self activating.
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Old 05-03-2017, 11:58 AM   #4
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Default Re: Detect Advantage: Transient or Switchable?

As written, it's transient (and pretty useless).
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Old 05-03-2017, 02:01 PM   #5
Kelly Pedersen
 
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Default Re: Detect Advantage: Transient or Switchable?

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Originally Posted by Imion View Post
Reflexive, +40% with Switchable, +10% for +44%, perhaps?
What's the logic for Switchable, here? I can see Reflexive (though I'd argue that a switchable Detect wouldn't necessarily have to have Reflexive's "activate upon stimulus" element), but I don't see what Switchable on it is "turning off"?

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Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
I think its Transient but you can keep it up with concentration so a series of transient like if your trying to locate something.
Reflexive is good for making it more continuous since it becomes self activating.
Would you say you still have to make Sense rolls every turn with Reflexive on Detect, though?
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Old 05-03-2017, 02:11 PM   #6
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Default Re: Detect Advantage: Transient or Switchable?

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Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
What's the logic for Switchable, here? I can see Reflexive (though I'd argue that a switchable Detect wouldn't necessarily have to have Reflexive's "activate upon stimulus" element), but I don't see what Switchable on it is "turning off"?



Would you say you still have to make Sense rolls every turn with Reflexive on Detect, though?
I don't see any logic for Switchable myself, clearly (IMO) Detect is already Switchable.
As to having to make Sense rolls it depends on what your doing. As long as you maintain Concentration and the subject does not hide or somehow conceal itself normal Detect wont require a new Sense Roll.
Reflexive just takes care of the Concentrate/Ready Requirement such that it is a Free Action to keep an eye on something.
If looking for something new than I would require a new Sense roll.
Reading Reflexive (Powers, p. 109) helps here as it is goes into detail in working specifically with Detect.
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Old 05-03-2017, 02:21 PM   #7
Kelly Pedersen
 
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Default Re: Detect Advantage: Transient or Switchable?

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Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
As to having to make Sense rolls it depends on what your doing. As long as you maintain Concentration and the subject does not hide or somehow conceal itself normal Detect wont require a new Sense Roll.
What about new subjects, though? I'm picturing someone slowly (because they can only move 1 yard at a time while Concentrating) moving around while maintaining the Detect. Say they made their original Sense roll by 5 (thus, they could sense something out to 15 yards, using standard range penalties), and something within the ambit of their Detect enters their range. Do they automatically sense it?

For that matter, Detect actually says you sense the "nearest" source of the substance, not all sources. It's been clarified that you can "screen out" sources you already know about or that fall below your chosen significance threshold (so Detect Life isn't actually useless, always detecting yourself or the bacteria on your skin), but once you've activated Detect, can you continue to sit there and Concentrate, each second finding another source? Or do you have to keep re-rolling Sense rolls every second, each time specifying that you're ruling out all the sources you've already discovered?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Refplace
Reflexive just takes care of the Concentrate/Ready Requirement such that it is a Free Action to keep an eye on something.
Reflexive, though, just says that it eliminates the Concentrate requirement to activate Detect. That's what this all hinges on - does Detect require one action to activate, and then remain on while you concentrate (switchable)? Or does it require repeated activations (transient)?
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Old 05-03-2017, 03:25 PM   #8
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Default Re: Detect Advantage: Transient or Switchable?

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Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
What about new subjects, though? I'm picturing someone slowly (because they can only move 1 yard at a time while Concentrating) moving around while maintaining the Detect. Say they made their original Sense roll by 5 (thus, they could sense something out to 15 yards, using standard range penalties), and something within the ambit of their Detect enters their range. Do they automatically sense it?
I would require a new Sense/Per roll each time looking for something new or as 'visibility' changes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
Reflexive, though, just says that it eliminates the Concentrate requirement to activate Detect. That's what this all hinges on - does Detect require one action to activate, and then remain on while you concentrate (switchable)? Or does it require repeated activations (transient)?
The second part of Reflexive comes into play here where it acts as a Level of Reduced Time. So instead of Concentrating to look for new things you can do so with a Free Action.
I pretty much consider Reflexive to turn Detect into a normal passive sense like vision or Hearing (Though its still a Vague sense, per Powers: Enhanced Senses.
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Old 05-03-2017, 03:53 PM   #9
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Default Re: Detect Advantage: Transient or Switchable?

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Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
What's the logic for Switchable, here? I can see Reflexive (though I'd argue that a switchable Detect wouldn't necessarily have to have Reflexive's "activate upon stimulus" element), but I don't see what Switchable on it is "turning off"?(...)
The way I see it is that Detect with Reflexive scans each and every round automatically, thus is quasi always on. With Switchable you can deactivate that automatic scanning. As you wanted to 'activate' your ability, it seemed like a sensible choice.

EDIT: Switchable, in this case, is meant to modify Reflexive, not Detect itself, if that is what bothers you.
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Last edited by Imion; 05-03-2017 at 04:08 PM.
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Old 05-03-2017, 04:22 PM   #10
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Default Re: Detect Advantage: Transient or Switchable?

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Originally Posted by Imion View Post

EDIT: Switchable, in this case, is meant to modify Reflexive, not Detect itself, if that is what bothers you.
Go with Selectivity than as that is specifically what it is for.
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