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Old 01-19-2020, 11:13 PM   #21
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Default Re: So what does Form Mastery (Spear) actually do?

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
Ah. Yeah, that's true but doesn't actually say what you want it to. It is directly established in those books that a spear can be wielded with Staff. Why they have persistently refused to put that into the weapon tables is, indeed, a bit baffling.

I thought you were saying something interesting about defaults rather than just denying the spear-as-staff mechanic altogether.
Staff does have a Thrusting damage entry, seems like that could just be swapped out if not using blunt tip.
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Old 01-20-2020, 02:50 AM   #22
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Default Re: So what does Form Mastery (Spear) actually do?

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
Ah. Yeah, that's true but doesn't actually say what you want it to. It is directly established in those books that a spear can be wielded with Staff.
Established where? The only thing like that I know is an obscure line in GURPS Martial Arts, and the weapons tables in the Basic Set and Low Tech explicitly deny that you can use a Spear with Staff skill.
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Old 01-20-2020, 06:28 AM   #23
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Default Re: So what does Form Mastery (Spear) actually do?

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Originally Posted by Phoenix_Dragon View Post
Close, but not quite. Normally you can choose what skill you're using a weapon with (From those skills that are valid for it) at the beginning of your turn. Form Mastery lets you change which skill you're using at any point in your turn, including multiple times in a turn. So you can start with using Staff skill, change to Spear skill to attack, then back to Staff skill so you're ready to parry.
Depends on how much of a grip/stance change is involved. Spear to staff is a different stance and quite possibly different number of hands on the weapon. This is a ready maneuver, like changing reach on a dueling pole-arm.
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Old 01-20-2020, 06:38 AM   #24
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Default Re: So what does Form Mastery (Spear) actually do?

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Originally Posted by Polydamas View Post
Established where? The only thing like that I know is an obscure line in GURPS Martial Arts, and the weapons tables in the Basic Set and Low Tech explicitly deny that you can use a Spear with Staff skill.
A relevant KrommQuote :
http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...3&postcount=10
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Old 01-20-2020, 07:21 AM   #25
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Default Re: So what does Form Mastery (Spear) actually do?

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Originally Posted by Polydamas View Post
Established where? The only thing like that I know is an obscure line in GURPS Martial Arts, and the weapons tables in the Basic Set and Low Tech explicitly deny that you can use a Spear with Staff skill.
Saying nothing is not the same as explicit denial.

It should really be implicit denial, I would agree. But when that clashes with explicit references to using spears with Staff, the implied denial has to lose out.
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Old 01-20-2020, 08:47 AM   #26
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Default Re: So what does Form Mastery (Spear) actually do?

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
It should really be implicit denial, I would agree. But when that clashes with explicit references to using spears with Staff, the implied denial has to lose out.
What explicit references in the Basic Set or Low Tech?

Kromm and others have house-ruled ways to use a spear with Staff skill since GURPS 3e, but I am talking about the RAW in the two specific books you cited. I don't see any reference to using a spear with Staff skill in those books, just defaulting Spear from Staff-2.
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Old 01-20-2020, 09:29 AM   #27
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Default Re: So what does Form Mastery (Spear) actually do?

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What explicit references in the Basic Set or Low Tech?

Kromm and others have house-ruled ways to use a spear with Staff skill since GURPS 3e, but I am talking about the RAW in the two specific books you cited. I don't see any reference to using a spear with Staff skill in those books, just defaulting Spear from Staff-2.
I'm sorry, is your sticking point that you are disavowing Martial Arts? Because I have zero interest in playing along with that.
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Old 01-20-2020, 09:41 AM   #28
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Default Re: So what does Form Mastery (Spear) actually do?

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
I'm sorry, is your sticking point that you are disavowing Martial Arts? Because I have zero interest in playing along with that.
Ulzgoroth, please stop moving the goalposts. You said "It is directly established in those books (Low Tech and Basic Set) that a spear can be wielded with Staff."

I asked, where in those two books?
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Old 01-20-2020, 09:46 AM   #29
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Default Re: So what does Form Mastery (Spear) actually do?

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Originally Posted by Polydamas View Post
Ulzgoroth, please stop moving the goalposts. You said "It is directly established in those books (Low Tech and Basic Set) that a spear can be wielded with Staff."

I asked, where in those two books?
It is possible that I wrote in error there. I truly could not care less.

I suppose you've set the goalposts consistently, but as I said I will not play along with 'in a world where we've never heard of Martial Arts, only the Basic Set and Low Tech'.
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Old 01-20-2020, 10:28 AM   #30
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Default Re: So what does Form Mastery (Spear) actually do?

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Originally Posted by Polydamas View Post
Ulzgoroth, please stop moving the goalposts. You said "It is directly established in those books (Low Tech and Basic Set) that a spear can be wielded with Staff."

I asked, where in those two books?
The rules are in MA, not Low-Tech.

Except for some allusions :

Low tech companion 2, p14 , chapter on Butt Spike.

And technically, but probably not what you are asking about, also on

Low tech companion 2, p14 , box on throwing (staff / throwing spear)
Low tech p73 (use a broken pilum as a staff)
Basic p 376 (parrying with improvised weapons)
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