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Old 03-19-2016, 12:27 PM   #141
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: An honest discussion about IQ in GURPS

A GM should always specify which cinematic/supernatural advantages are allowed and which realistic advantages are restricted before character creation. For example, a male character with Independent Income 10 [10] and Wealth (Multimillionaire 2) [100] would be a realistic possibility for a 150 point character, but the majority of games would offer nothing for that character. If the campaign is TL8, he earns $20,000,000 per month, which would allow him to hire the best servants (paying an extra 100% to increase Loyalty by 10).

That would allow the character to hire a company of the best retired Navy Seals for bodyguards for $5,200,000 per month ($2,600,000 per month for labor costs and $2,600,000 per month for equipment and operating costs). The retired Navy Seals are a minimum of 300 point characters (the basic U.S. Navy Seal template is 240 points), so a 150 point character could have 100 300 point bodyguards that are quite loyal to accompany him. In addition, he could also hire another 100 equally capable and loyal servants, able to do a wide variety of tasks, to handle every aspect of adventuring for another $5,200,000 per month ($2,600,000 per month for labor costs and $2,600,000 per month for equipment and operating costs).
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Old 03-19-2016, 12:35 PM   #142
Anthony
 
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Default Re: An honest discussion about IQ in GURPS

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Originally Posted by Gollum View Post
Nope. If I choose a template which gives ST+1 and DX+3 and pay its cost, I have ST+1 and DX+3. I don't have to pay any point more to have these bonuses.
You just wouldn't list ST +1 and DX +3 on the template. You'd either list a point total, or you'd just have a note such as 'recommended stats'. I'd probably do the latter for professional templates, as the requirement is a total skill level, not a skill level over the average for your race.
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Old 03-19-2016, 12:48 PM   #143
Peter Knutsen
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Default Re: An honest discussion about IQ in GURPS

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
(paying an extra 100% to increase Loyalty by 10).
I found the problem in your suggestion. It's completely unreasonable that a mere doubling of pay can cause Loyalty to go up so drastically.

Paying hirelings more should make them more loyal, yes, but there should be diminishing returns, and extreme Loyalty rolls should be at a penalty. Someone hired as a bodyguard expects the person he's guarding to be living a normal life. As soon as the bodyguard finds that his boss isn't living a normal life at all, but is instead engaged in all sorts of utterly bizarre "adventures" (and ultra-dangerous adventures too), he'll start to contemplate quitting. Even more so if he has colleagues that he can talk to about it, and who will realistically have the same concerns.
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Old 03-19-2016, 12:52 PM   #144
Peter Knutsen
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Default Re: An honest discussion about IQ in GURPS

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
You just wouldn't list ST +1 and DX +3 on the template. You'd either list a point total, or you'd just have a note such as 'recommended stats'. I'd probably do the latter for professional templates, as the requirement is a total skill level, not a skill level over the average for your race.
One of the neat things about the Templates in GURPS, and the Packages in newer editions of Hero System, is that total point costs are included in them.

Removing that would be a loss. It might be necessary to remove it, if you house rule GURPS fairly extensively, I don't know if that would be the case (it isn't possible to have anything like templates in Sagatafl, but that's because it differs radically from GURPS in many of its details), but you need to understand that losing the ability to have Templates and Lenses is a genuine loss.
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Old 03-19-2016, 12:53 PM   #145
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Default Re: An honest discussion about IQ in GURPS

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One of the neat things about the Templates in GURPS, and the Packages in newer editions of Hero System, is that total point costs are included in them.
'Buy stats, then buy a template' is not exactly a horrific imposition.
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Old 03-19-2016, 01:00 PM   #146
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: An honest discussion about IQ in GURPS

I am just taking the rules concerning Loyalty modifiers from Basic, p. 519. Quite frankly, highly competent bodyguards (the equivalent of Navy Seals) are paid an average of $13,000 per month when traveling to high-risk areas, so doubling that to $26,000 per month would allow you to have a highly competent and highly loyal bodyguards (you can think of the doubling of pay as the price for selecting bodyguards with a reputation for extreme loyalty). In this case, you are not paying a bodyguards more money to make them more loyal but, instead, paying for bodyguards with a proven record of higher loyalty to their employers and getting what you pay for. The operations and equipment spending would allow you to give your bodyguards the gear and support that they need to do their mission, which is to protect you from harm.
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Old 03-19-2016, 02:24 PM   #147
Gollum
 
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Default Re: An honest discussion about IQ in GURPS

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If I were starting a campaign, and I handed out a list of existing advantages that weren't possible in that world, or of newly defined ones that were, would you call that a house rule? If so, it doesn't seem to be less so if you decide only when the player submits the character sheet. It only seems to become not a house rule if you allow it to the players you like and not the others. . . .
That's exactly what I wanted to mean. No need to make a house rule like improving the cost of basic attributes, changing it to make it more expensive as it goes higher, and so on.

GM's fiat is largely sufficient exactly as it is sufficient to draw up the list of allowed advantages, disadvantages and skills.
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Old 03-19-2016, 02:35 PM   #148
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Default Re: An honest discussion about IQ in GURPS

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A GM should always specify which cinematic/supernatural advantages are allowed and which realistic advantages are restricted before character creation.
Yes and, in my humble opinion, he should also specify what maximum level of attribute is allowed in his campaign (too keep things more realistic if he wants too).

That's exactly the same kind of decision.

Cinematic advantages and disadvantages are in the rules as written. It doesn't mean that they can be used in all game worlds, for every kind of campaigns. Forbidding some of them in your game world is not house rule; it is just a GM decision to keep things consistent with the genre being played.

So, in my point of view, disallowing attribute scores above 14 (15 or 16) is exactly the same thing: a mere GM decision to keep things consistent with the genre being played.
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Old 03-19-2016, 03:37 PM   #149
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: An honest discussion about IQ in GURPS

I completely agree. While ST 16+ and HT 16+ is rarely imbalancing in the majority of campaigns, DX 16+ and IQ 16+ can be quite imbalancing. That is generally why I require that positive attribute and secondary attributes totals be between 40% and 80% of character point totals and forbid DX and IQ above 14. ST and HT above 14 is rarely a problem in high-tech campaigns, as the ranged weapons are more effective than any ST-based weapon and as combat will chew up a high HT character fairly quickly, though they could be quite impressive in low-tech campaigns.
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Old 03-19-2016, 06:02 PM   #150
Vernon King Avaritt III
 
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Default Re: An honest discussion about IQ in GURPS

This is from Page 23 from GURPS Supers. I must apologize if someone listed this first as my computer is running out of juice and I'm on the road. I just thought this should be said if it hasn't been said before.

HIGH ATTRIBUTES
Heroes without actual superpowers (often called “super normals”), such as Doc Savage or Batman, often have high attributes; sometimes all their attributes are high. A single score of 20 puts someone into the street-level power range,
while boosting all four to 20 puts him into the classic comicbook range. GMs may want to set the ceiling on attributes at 25 or 30 instead of 20 for super normals, especially for those who only take a single attribute at this level.
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