Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-18-2016, 12:35 PM   #31
Phantasm
 
Phantasm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: On the road again...
Default Re: Statting heroes from the Trojan War?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders View Post
He was kind of stupid that way.
Pride does make people do stupid things... like brag. ;)
__________________
"Life ... is an Oreo cookie." - J'onn J-onzz, 1991

"But mom, I don't wanna go back in the dungeon!"

The GURPS Marvel Universe Reboot Project and its not-a-wiki-really web adaptation.
Ranoc, a Muskets-and-Magery Renaissance Fantasy Setting
Phantasm is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2016, 10:25 PM   #32
DanHoward
 
DanHoward's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Default Re: Statting heroes from the Trojan War?

Diomedes is the only real man. The rest of them are preppy cry babies.
__________________
Compact Castles gives the gamer an instant portfolio of genuine, real-world castle floorplans to use in any historical, low-tech, or fantasy game setting.
DanHoward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2016, 11:23 PM   #33
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Default Re: Statting heroes from the Trojan War?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanHoward View Post
Diomedes is the only real man. The rest of them are preppy cry babies.
To my mind, there's a serious case for Hector being the most admirable character in the Iliad, certainly more so than either Achilles or Agamemnon.
__________________
Bill Stoddard

A human being should know how to live fast, die young, and leave a beautiful corpse. Specialization is for insects.
whswhs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2016, 05:22 AM   #34
Anders
 
Anders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Default Re: Statting heroes from the Trojan War?

Have you read Colleen McCullough's Songs of Troy? That's an excellent retelling of the story of the Trojan War which I highly recommend.

Spoiler:  
__________________
“He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them. But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion... Nor is it enough that he should hear the opinions of adversaries from his own teachers, presented as they state them, and accompanied by what they offer as refutations. He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them...he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.”
Anders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2016, 11:04 PM   #35
jason taylor
 
jason taylor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
Default Re: Statting heroes from the Trojan War?

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
To my mind, there's a serious case for Hector being the most admirable character in the Iliad, certainly more so than either Achilles or Agamemnon.
Speaking of Achilles, what does the UCMJ say is the penalty for desertion in the face of the enemy?
__________________
"The navy could probably win a war without coffee but would prefer not to try"-Samuel Eliot Morrison
jason taylor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2016, 11:38 PM   #36
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Default Re: Statting heroes from the Trojan War?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason taylor View Post
Speaking of Achilles, what does the UCMJ say is the penalty for desertion in the face of the enemy?
I have no idea. But applying it to the Trojan War seems like an anachronism.
__________________
Bill Stoddard

A human being should know how to live fast, die young, and leave a beautiful corpse. Specialization is for insects.
whswhs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2016, 11:52 PM   #37
jason taylor
 
jason taylor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
Default Re: Statting heroes from the Trojan War?

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
I have no idea. But applying it to the Trojan War seems like an anachronism.
I can just see it in a court-martial,"Your honor, my client deserted because he was mad at the commander for taking the woman he wanted to kidnap."
__________________
"The navy could probably win a war without coffee but would prefer not to try"-Samuel Eliot Morrison
jason taylor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2016, 01:08 AM   #38
Phantasm
 
Phantasm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: On the road again...
Default Re: Statting heroes from the Trojan War?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason taylor View Post
I can just see it in a court-martial,"Your honor, my client deserted because he was mad at the commander for taking the woman he wanted to kidnap."
Correction: the woman he had kidnapped. :)

As it is, though, Achilles didn't exactly desert; they knew where he was the entire time he refused to fight: on his ship or in his tent. He was the general of his own troops who he had brought with him (50 ships full of troops, according to The Iliad), not beholden to Agamemnon or Menelaus except through promises, promises which Agamemnon had broken. It'd be more like the head Russian general refusing an order from Ike during WWII; Ike could grumble about it, but he really couldn't do a thing without losing coordination efforts between the various Allied forces.

Remember, the forces arrayed both for and against Troy were loose coalitions, not a unified army. Neither side was anywhere near united under a single banner; it was Sparta (Menelaus) allied with Syracuse (Odysseus) allied with the Myrmidons (Achilles) allied with the etc.; and Troy allied with the Amazons allied with various Hittite cities allied with another etc.

So given that, Achilles was treating Agamemnon as an equal, as was his right, not as his superior. Agamemnon clearly thought differently, but egos were big on all sides of the conflict.
__________________
"Life ... is an Oreo cookie." - J'onn J-onzz, 1991

"But mom, I don't wanna go back in the dungeon!"

The GURPS Marvel Universe Reboot Project and its not-a-wiki-really web adaptation.
Ranoc, a Muskets-and-Magery Renaissance Fantasy Setting
Phantasm is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2016, 06:41 PM   #39
Icelander
 
Icelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
Default Re: Statting heroes from the Trojan War?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason taylor View Post
Speaking of Achilles, what does the UCMJ say is the penalty for desertion in the face of the enemy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
I have no idea. But applying it to the Trojan War seems like an anachronism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason taylor View Post
I can just see it in a court-martial,"Your honor, my client deserted because he was mad at the commander for taking the woman he wanted to kidnap."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantasm View Post
As it is, though, Achilles didn't exactly desert; they knew where he was the entire time he refused to fight: on his ship or in his tent. He was the general of his own troops who he had brought with him (50 ships full of troops, according to The Iliad), not beholden to Agamemnon or Menelaus except through promises, promises which Agamemnon had broken. It'd be more like the head Russian general refusing an order from Ike during WWII; Ike could grumble about it, but he really couldn't do a thing without losing coordination efforts between the various Allied forces.

Remember, the forces arrayed both for and against Troy were loose coalitions, not a unified army. Neither side was anywhere near united under a single banner; it was Sparta (Menelaus) allied with Syracuse (Odysseus) allied with the Myrmidons (Achilles) allied with the etc.; and Troy allied with the Amazons allied with various Hittite cities allied with another etc.

So given that, Achilles was treating Agamemnon as an equal, as was his right, not as his superior. Agamemnon clearly thought differently, but egos were big on all sides of the conflict.
It's comparable to an Afghan warlord of the Northern Alliance refusing an 'order' from a US general. There's no question of court martial or disciplinary proceedings, because getting cooperation at all is a question of diplomacy, not chain-of-command.

The modern world, somewhere in our globe, features fairly exact analogues to most military/political situations of ancient Greence. The hegemony of Agamemnon is no exception.
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!

Last edited by Icelander; 06-26-2016 at 06:44 PM.
Icelander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2016, 07:20 PM   #40
DanHoward
 
DanHoward's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Default Re: Statting heroes from the Trojan War?

Yep. Achilles didn't desert, he "withdrew his support". And Hektor ran away when he finally came to face Achilles.
__________________
Compact Castles gives the gamer an instant portfolio of genuine, real-world castle floorplans to use in any historical, low-tech, or fantasy game setting.
DanHoward is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
achilles, question, stat, trojan

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.