Ship enhancers

[tremorlaine]

Are Ship Enhancers considered items? If a player only has a Ship with two Ship Enhancers on it and he has to discard one Item does he have to discard the Ship with the Enhancers or can he choose to just discard one Enhancer?

[Clipper]

Ship Enhancers that have a Gold Piece value (which I believe is most of them) are Items. I'm fairly sure you can't just detach an Enhancer in order to discard it, though. You will need to get rid of them all at once. If the card asking for the discard allows for multiple discards, you can count them all (so three cards in this case), but otherwise, you must discard the Ship and the Ship Enhancers will then go with it.

[tremorlaine]

That's how I would have ruled it but there is still dissension. Since you are only "fairly sure" can we can an official stamp on this ruling?

[Solelron]

From the Rules of Munchkin Booty under ships: page 5

There are also a few Items that specifically enhance Ships.
Ships can also be enhanced by regular “Item Enhancers”
from other sets, if those Enhancers otherwise apply.
Enhancers cannot be moved between Ships. A Ship with an
Enhancer has the Enhancer’s gold value added to its own.

Therefor no, it becomes merged with item, like all other enhancers

(Taken from SJ Games Website Directly: http://www.worldofmunchkin.com/rules/booty_rules.pdf)

[Moldon]

ok.
Can I discard an Enhancer (Item or not) then I must discard a card (for example to use an ability)?

[Clipper]

Originally Posted by Moldon

ok.
Can I discard an Enhancer (Item or not) then I must discard a card (for example to use an ability)?

If I'm correct in my understanding of the previous rulings, then you cannot discard just the Enhancer to power an ability and also leave the Item in play. You must discard the Item it is attached to in order to discard the Enhancer. I'm certain that if you do discard both the Item and the Enhancer, you can count those as multiple discards for abilities like the Warrior's Berserking ability which allows you to discard up to 3 cards to get a bonus for each card discarded. You could also use the Dutch Accent's I’ll Take What In The Box Is ability to discard a Ship and its Enhancer to draw a new Treasure.

As I said in my earlier post, I am fairly sure of the above, but I just did some research to try to look for the rulings that led me to that conclusion. There were some conflicting rulings made earlier this year, that make it difficult to determine the true answer, unfortunately. MM said you actually could discard an Enhancer without discarding its attached Item here:

Originally Posted by MunchkinMan

However, the Ship Enhancer is attached thus: If the Ship goes, the Enhancer goes. However, one can normally detach a Ship Enhancer in order to discard it (not trade, not move to another Ship, but a discard) in order to sell it, or for Curses/Bad Stuff which say you must discard Items or cards.

Yet he had said one month earlier almost exactly the opposite:

Originally Posted by MunchkinMan

Once a Ship Enhancer is attached to a Ship, it's attached to the Ship. You can't take it off to sell it.

And one month earlier to that, he said:

Originally Posted by MunchkinMan

No. Once a Ship Enhancers is played on a Ship, it stays on a Ship. There are explicitly stated cards which are exceptions, and the fact that they are so explicitly stated should make it clear that they are exceptions.

And also, much earlier in 2008, he said:

Originally Posted by MunchkinMan

Hmmmmm. . . Any time a card is permanently attached to another, discarding one would force the discard of the other. That's 2 cards you're discarding, and I don't see that they count as anything else. We are talking about cards, and not Items or Races that you are specifically discarding, yes? If the ability you are using says to discard an Item, than anything attached to an Item would go, but it's still one Item.

I think I have seen Andrew ruling the same way as MM's earlier three rulings, but I can't find an example right now. I am ignoring the first and most recent ruling I quoted in my interpretation above, but that ruling disagrees with so many previous rulings that I think it may have been in error. I'm sure someone will be along to clear all this up soon, though.

[tremorlaine]

So from what I gather you are saying that you agree to disagree with yourself? That is very Munchkinly of you :)

[Clipper]

Originally Posted by tremorlaine

So from what I gather you are saying that you agree to disagree with yourself? That is very Munchkinly of you :)

Uh, no. I am choosing to agree with the earlier three posts of MunchkinMan and to disagree with his most recent post, the first one I quoted, for now. That means you cannot discard an Enhancer to power an ability unless you also discard the Item it is attached to. I've said that in both my previous posts in the thread too.

[tremorlaine]

My apologies, that was just my poor attempt at humor. That wasn't meant to be degrading in any way shape or form.

[Clipper]

Originally Posted by tremorlaine

My apologies, that was just my poor attempt at humor. That wasn't meant to be degrading in any way shape or form.

No offence taken. I thought I may have somehow confused you as I couldn't see how I had contradicted myself, so just wanted to make things clear.