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Old 07-08-2018, 03:29 PM   #41
Steve Jackson
President and EIC
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Default Re: New Skills

A lot of these would be GURPS-style advantages. And I weighed trying to add those to the system but decided "No." Or "not now," at least.

I really like advantages and disads, but every one is a new rule.

Streetwise I can definitely see.

Survival (terrain) maybe.

Heraldry, yes, but probably just in the list of mundane skills. Might be a 2-pointer.

Area Knowledge, maybe.

Artillerist, or just Gunner, makes sense, but is it worth adding when we don't have the weapons?

What about Spelunking? What might a talent by that name bring to the tble? Is it just Survival (Caves?)

----

After deep meditation and reading comments, I have slid back to the "memory limit" camp - your IQ limits the number of spells/talents you can have.
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Old 07-08-2018, 03:51 PM   #42
Rick_Smith
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Coquitlam B.C.
Default Re: New Skills

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Jackson View Post
... After deep meditation and reading comments, I have slid back to the "memory limit" camp - your IQ limits the number of spells/talents you can have.
Hi Steve, everyone.
At least 2/3 of the TFT campaigns I've seen have some sort of house rule that makes it possible to get more talents. (Education attributes, memory = 2x IQ, memory sub-attributes, +4 memory for all characters, lowering costs of expensive talents, for example.)

You might want to consider lowering the memory cost for several or most talents.

Warm regards, Rick.
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Old 07-08-2018, 03:59 PM   #43
Chris Rice
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London Uk, but originally from Scotland
Default Re: New Skills

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Jackson View Post

After deep meditation and reading comments, I have slid back to the "memory limit" camp - your IQ limits the number of spells/talents you can have.
I really think that's a wise decision Steve. We can always have whole books worth of alternative rules later on.
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Old 07-08-2018, 04:05 PM   #44
Rick_Smith
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Coquitlam B.C.
Default Skills require memory IQ again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Rice View Post
I really think that's a wise decision Steve. We can always have whole books worth of alternative rules later on.
Hi Chris, everyone.
I agree. TFT has few enough talents, that experienced figures would soon have pretty much all of the talents applicable to their 'class'. And the big trade offs (what goes in my finite memory), is lost.

Warm regards, Rick.
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Old 07-08-2018, 07:05 PM   #45
Steve Jackson
President and EIC
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Default Re: New Skills

Any particular talents you feel are overpriced?
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Old 07-08-2018, 07:13 PM   #46
Wayne
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Geelong, Australia
Default Re: New Skills

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Jackson View Post
After deep meditation and reading comments, I have slid back to the "memory limit" camp - your IQ limits the number of spells/talents you can have.
Would it be reasonable to allow talents beyond IQ but only after the attribute cap has been reached?
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Old 07-08-2018, 07:24 PM   #47
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: New Skills

I did something unusual with talents that I think worked out well and others might find interesting: I use them as 'gate keepers' for characters occupying high status roles, like knighthood or membership in the nobility. There is a 'Gentry' talent that means you a member of a family that holds land in exchange for fealty to some local noble, and 'Noble' talent means you are a member of a family that rules a barony or larger territory and owes fealty only to a king or other higher ranking noble.
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Old 07-08-2018, 08:06 PM   #48
Kirk
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Default Re: New Skills

IQ should limit talents, just like spells, and just like ST limits proper use of weapons, etc. The three attributes need to say balanced or risk breaking the game.

We haven't really run into talents that are overpriced, just ones that are used more frequently than others because of the type of play we engage in. For instance, mimic or sex appeal or mechanician might be properly priced, but not more frequently taken on a one-off castle raid.

To the "problem" of feeling that one cannot create an interesting or developed character with the IQ limit and not wanting to invoke "forgetting" (which is a little clunky but really not so unrealistic), we have found that if the GM wants to design in *inherent* style talents at no cost, this is a way around this problem.

For instance, if I want to model a forest Elf in Lothlorien, I might give them silent movement, acute hearing, and missile weapons talent at no IQ cost. This is, in effect, a part of their culture from birth, and perhaps even evolutionarily predisposed skill.

One can do this with any talents, granting them as part of the character one is designing, without having to dink with nor risk unbalancing the way ST, DX, and IQ are balanced and the 3d6 with 10 average aspect of the game.
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Old 07-08-2018, 08:30 PM   #49
Rick_Smith
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Coquitlam B.C.
Default Buying talents just a bit above your IQ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne View Post
Would it be reasonable to allow talents beyond IQ but only after the attribute cap has been reached?
Hi Wayne,
I don't think so. That said...

An optional rule that I used for a while was that you could buy a talent (or spell) one IQ over your IQ, by paying double memory cost. This was prompted by a Giant character who REALLY wanted to take Tactics.

Low IQ figures have low memory, so the double cost hurts. If you think that x2 is not enough of a penalty, try x3.

Warm regards, Rick.
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Old 07-09-2018, 12:27 AM   #50
Rick_Smith
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Coquitlam B.C.
Default Price of talents

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Jackson View Post
Any particular talents you feel are overpriced?
Hi Steve.
Most adventurers want to have a few fighting skills, (say Sword, Shield, & Running), and if they take some other talents (Thief, Detect Traps, Climbing, & Silent MA), then they are DONE. That is it. Many characters in fiction and in real life are not so limited, which explains the wide spread house rules that allow them more memory. ("All of my Elves just start with Naturalist, Woodsman and Bow. Makes sense!").

In old TFT, you could keep increasing IQ to get the memory (mIQ) to give your thief Boating, Seamanship & Swimming (a thief / pirate or some other equally exotic character class). Sure an IQ of 14 was really high for your character concept of a hard fighting, hard drinking, dimwitted, (but friendly) pirate. But you REALLY wanted your guy on a tall ship. However, in new TFT, with people limited to 40 attributes, memory is going to be even more short than in old TFT. Give up on the idea of him every buying Charisma or Sex Appeal. Your pirate would like to get Guns and Missile Weapons (assuming that works with Guns), but forget-about-it in the new TFT.

Let's say that I want to play a Arabian Nights type master merchant adventurer. What talents are appropriate? Say... Sword, Fencing, Shield, Tactics, Literacy, Business Sense, Extra language, Detection of Lies, Courtly Graces, Charisma, New Followers, Diplomacy, Riding (camel), Driver (camel), Recognize Value, Assess Value, Survival (Desert) (say the same cost as woodsman?). Several other talents would be nice, but my master merchant right now needs an IQ of 22. In real life, and in fiction, these people exist, but try to build a competent Merchant / Adventurer in the new TFT.

It wouldn't hurt my feelings if most of the TFT talents were reduced in price to 1/2 to 3/4 of their current mIQ cost.

***

I think some talents should cost 1/2 a memory. In GURPS 4th edition you sensibly got rid of 1/2 character point talents. But that is easy to do when your characters are 100 or 150 points. In TFT when players have, say, 10 mIQ to work with, 1/2 point skills make more sense.

An IQ 12 figure might be able to get 7 or 8 talents but an IQ 12 wizard could easily take 14 spells (since 3 hex fire includes 1 hex fire). So if I take Master Thief, I have to pay for Thief with separate memory (mIQ). However, if Master Thief cost 3 mIQ and included Thief, there would be a 1 mIQ net saving compared to how TFT works now.

Likewise, if you add a First Aid talent (as several people have asked for), IQ 11 Physicker (2) could include it.

***
However, you asked me if there are any particular talents which I thought were over priced. See next post.

Warm regards, Rick.
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