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Old Yesterday, 04:05 AM   #1
Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Default Shielding Earth/Moving Earth from Suns Red Giant phase.

Just been reading a chart of deep time that stated it would take 1 Billion Years of multiple flybys by asteroids , to move Earth far enough out to avoid being cooked . I reckon that's too long & with concentrated effort - and avoiding catastrophic interaction with Mars & Jupiter - it could be done in under 5 Million years . Humanity would've probably long left by then , but placed automated robotic 'guardians' to help preserve humanity's Cradle & any remaining natural lifeforms .

As it is , Earth will start to become uncomfortably hot by about 200 Million AD ( sooner if we keep dumping ridiculous amounts of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere ) & the Sun increasing in Luminosity .
Other predictions state as low as 50 Million years or as high as 600 Million - all depending on Continental Drift & variability in Earth's Orbit & inclination .

Sunstorm by Arthur C. Clarke and Stephen Baxter had most of the World's population pooling resources to prevent the Earth being cooked by a huge Solar Flare in 2042 A.D. & while optimistic , I reckon we'd to do something similar by around 2150 to 2200 A.D ? Semi Self Replicating Robot Probe spacecraft , using asteroid materials to create some sort of usable Shield .

What do others think ? Am I being overoptimistic ?
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Last edited by Racer; Yesterday at 04:10 AM.
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Old Yesterday, 04:41 AM   #2
Paulon
 
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Default Re: Shielding Earth/Moving Earth from Suns Red Giant phase.

The novel 'A World Out Of Time' by Larry Niven had Earth moved out to be a moon of Jupiter, pulled by the gravitational field of Uranus. A double ended nuclear rocket was put into the gas giant's atmosphere and used to move the planet around the solar system, towing Earth to a new orbit.
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Old Yesterday, 05:48 AM   #3
Racer
 
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Default Re: Shielding Earth/Moving Earth from Suns Red Giant phase.

Ah yes I forgot that one ! How practical do you reckon that is ? At least multiple Asteroid flybys are practical & feasible by foreseeable technologies . Even moving a small solid moon ( NOT Phobos or Deimos ) is fairly practical , but large asteroids are closer .
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Old Yesterday, 06:18 AM   #4
ericthered
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Default Re: Shielding Earth/Moving Earth from Suns Red Giant phase.

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Originally Posted by Racer View Post
Ah yes I forgot that one ! How practical do you reckon that is ? At least multiple Asteroid flybys are practical & feasible by foreseeable technologies . Even moving a small solid moon ( NOT Phobos or Deimos ) is fairly practical , but large asteroids are closer .
The technique I generally see used is called a gravity tractor. Its more often proposed for asteroids than for earth, but its still the technique you'd want to use. Which means you're melting down several asteroids and building a solid sturdy craft. Instead of doing multiple flyby's, you put it in orbit and move it when its in front and and when its behind where you want to go.

Yes, that will take a while and it will take a lot of energy, but you're moving a planet, so what did you expect?

The solution to short term heat problems from an astroengineering standpoint is usually orbital shades, which are much much cheaper.
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Old Yesterday, 09:47 AM   #5
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: Shielding Earth/Moving Earth from Suns Red Giant phase.

Earth would never be swallowed during the red giant phase, Sol is too tiny, though its blackbody T would increase to 700 K. For it to remaining habitable, it would have to move to 6.25 AU. Since we have 7.1 billion years until the beginning of the phase though, we have plenty of time, as moving the Earth 53 meters per year would do it.

I would suggest using Vesta, as it is relatively solid, and could be maneuvered without that much difficulty. A gravity tractor in the position of Earth-Sol L2 could probably do it. Another alternative would be to use the Moon, as moving its orbit would move the orbit of the Earth.

Last edited by AlexanderHowl; Yesterday at 03:19 PM. Reason: Corrected due to math error
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Old Yesterday, 11:04 AM   #6
SilvercatMoonpaw
 
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Default Re: Shielding Earth/Moving Earth from Suns Red Giant phase.

Alternatively have every robot on Earth belch into the sky at the same time. ^_^

(I'd apologize, but when else am I going to get to make that reference?)
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Old Yesterday, 02:43 PM   #7
Paulon
 
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Default Re: Shielding Earth/Moving Earth from Suns Red Giant phase.

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Ah yes I forgot that one ! How practical do you reckon that is ? At least multiple Asteroid flybys are practical & feasible by foreseeable technologies . Even moving a small solid moon ( NOT Phobos or Deimos ) is fairly practical , but large asteroids are closer .
Using current or immediately foreseeable tech, not a chance of the gas giant idea working IMO. Longer term though, I can see it as possible to alter Earth's orbit around the Sun using that kind of system - it's developing the tech base needed for getting to Uranus then building the rocket not the theoretical science that's the big issue as far as an uneducated in the field person like me can see. Now, we definitely couldn't do it, but in a few centuries? Maybe. Would we bother at this point? Probably not as there's no reason to at present.

I have trouble seeing it as possible to safely insert Earth into a regular orbit in the Jovian system using a single gravitational source to tow it though, even leaving aside the question of Jupiter's rather energetic spacial environment and whether Earth's own magnetosphere would be enough to protect the planet from that.
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Old Yesterday, 03:05 PM   #8
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Default Re: Shielding Earth/Moving Earth from Suns Red Giant phase.

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I have trouble seeing it as possible to safely insert Earth into a regular orbit in the Jovian system using a single gravitational source to tow it though, even leaving aside the question of Jupiter's rather energetic spacial environment and whether Earth's own magnetosphere would be enough to protect the planet from that.
Putting Earth at one of Jupiter's Trojan points, on the other hand, might be rather more viable. We'd have to clear it out, but that's much easier than moving Earth.
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Old Yesterday, 04:08 PM   #9
Racer
 
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Default Re: Shielding Earth/Moving Earth from Suns Red Giant phase.

Like 'Naval Central' in Eta Cassiopeia System , from the game Frontier: Elite II ?

It is the only system known (so far!) with habitable worlds in the Trojan points of a large planetary body, with all three bodies moving in exactly the same orbital path, separated by 60 degrees.

Both these worlds (Trojan and Feynman) have indigenous life and examination of their biological structure shows them to be based on the same DNA-like genetic mechanism as each other. Current theories suggest that particles spread along the orbital path following an asteroidal impact with Trojan, on which life was just emerging, and reached the atmosphere of Feynman relatively intact. Though there is evidence for a major glancing impact on Trojan in its early history (thought by some to have helped form its moon), this is highly contested by some scientists.The Federal Navy terraformed the only moon of the gas giant Between in the 2970s to give an ideal training ground for planetary assault troops, and now that the Naval Academy has been moved here, it is the foremost naval training centre. There are no surface settlements for civilian visitors, they must disembark at the orbital station "Morgue's Mortuary".


https://lotf.co.uk/fe2_gazetteer.html

I was thinking that 60 behind Jupiter would be best ? As Jupiter could shield or deflect most incoming objects in a similar orbital path .

Can I just thank people for posting , as I needed good brains to pick over this head scratcher ;-)
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Old Yesterday, 05:23 PM   #10
Anaraxes
 
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Default Re: Shielding Earth/Moving Earth from Suns Red Giant phase.

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Putting Earth at one of Jupiter's Trojan points, on the other hand, might be rather more viable.
The problem there is that we can't use L4. If we did, we'd be preceding Jupiter in his orbit. And so we'd be the herald of Jupiter, which would force us to rename our planet "Mercury". But that's taken, so we'd have to rename that one, too -- and then whatever one we took the ex-Mercury's new name from, and so on, et cetera ad infinitum. The complexity would get out of hand. It'd be simpler just to move to a whole new star system.
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