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Old 01-18-2019, 12:02 PM   #21
warhorse11h
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Mana

[QUOTE=Skarg;2236844]All things being equal and TFT being a point-buy game, if you base mana on IQ, I'd say that pretty much any 32-point arena wizard design would be less effective than one who shifted points from ST to DX or IQ, because extra points in ST would just help you take wounds a little bit (even raising DX and then reducing it with cloth or leather armor would seem almost always a better choice than raising ST in that case)./QUOTE]

If I might stick my oar in here, I think there might be a misconception here. I think what JLV was trying to say and what I understood was that mana and IQ are only linked in this scheme in that one's mana is limited to being equal to the wizard's IQ. It is completely separate from IQ except that one's IQ represents the wizard's ability to focus mana for spell casting.

Just trying to clarify. Excuse me, I'll let myself out now.

Last edited by warhorse11h; 01-18-2019 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 01-18-2019, 12:38 PM   #22
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Default Re: Mana

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Originally Posted by TippetsTX View Post
This!

And there are a lot of other elements that would need to be addressed if you alter this core design assumption. How would the Aid spell work? Would Confusion reduce the wizard's available mana? Do we need new spells to target or defend one's mana reserve? What happens when mana hits zero? Will the use of XP to increase IQ automatically increase mana and if so, wouldn't the implied 40-point stat cap limit the wizard’s power potential?

Like I said... eye twitching.
;)
How would the Aid spell work? Just like normal except you're using mana to power it.

Would Confusion reduce the wizard's available mana? No, no more than it would reduce his ST, which it doesn't. It could still affect his spell casting by altering his IQ if I remember correctly. Perhaps I've been "Confused"

Do we need new spells to target or defend one's mana reserve? Depends on whether you want to or not.

What happens when mana hits zero? Same thing, minus passing out, that happens when ST hits 0. You're done casting spells unless you have a staff, a powerstone or decide to bite the bullet and start using your ST and taking damage from casting. In short, what you have to do now when ST is close to 0. Find a spot and rest and refit or pull out of the dungeon and go home.

Will the use of XP to increase IQ automatically increase mana and if so, wouldn't the implied 40-point stat cap limit the wizard’s power potential? No more or less than the cap affects your ST, DX, and IQ.

Its ok if your eyes twitch, just watch out for your blood pressure.
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Old 01-18-2019, 01:41 PM   #23
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Default Re: Mana

OK, so I obviously need to come up with tougher questions next time.
;)

My point, however, is the whether you source the Mana stat from ST or IQ, I think you would have to look at every instance in the rules where either of those is referenced and assess the potential impacts to the balance of the game from removing or altering those dependencies.
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Old 01-18-2019, 01:54 PM   #24
warhorse11h
 
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Default Re: Mana

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Originally Posted by TippetsTX View Post
OK, so I obviously need to come up with tougher questions next time.
;)

My point, however, is the whether you source the Mana stat from ST or IQ, I think you would have to look at every instance in the rules where either of those is referenced and assess the potential impacts to the balance of the game from removing or altering those dependencies.
That's part of the benefit of this little exchange. Multiple heads looking at the same problem from different viewpoints cover a lot more ground than one person coming from one viewpoint.
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Old 01-18-2019, 07:53 PM   #25
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Default Re: Mana

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Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
Thanks for writing so. Yes, I've often felt that I or others have written points that were very insightful and valuable, and you've simply commented that you don't see it as a problem, which I've often read as meaning you think they were wrong about what they said. If instead you meant that while they had a good point from their perspective, that there's plenty of room for other players to enjoy the game without ever noticing the issues they mentioned, then I'm sorry to have mis-read your intent many times.
Generally, when I say something like that, what I'm saying is that there are plenty of ways to skin the cat, and what someone points out as a major "problem" area is often just an opinion of one of those ways. Plus, honestly, a lot of those problem areas could be managed better by simply writing a better house rule than the one under discussion. I don't believe that I've EVER said that anyone was "wrong" about anything. For one thing, I'm not the game designer and lack any moral authority to do so; and for another, to my mind the real question is "is it fun?" much more than it is "is it precisely the way the rules state something?"

I also find that TFT is an enormously forgiving system, when it comes to things like play-balance and the like. You can do things with the system that were never envisaged by the author and still find the basic system functions extremely well, and doesn't tragically alter the game's innate playability and excellence. To my mind, that's one of the hallmarks of truly great game design! ;-)
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Old 01-18-2019, 07:56 PM   #26
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Default Re: Mana

[QUOTE=warhorse11h;2236861]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
All things being equal and TFT being a point-buy game, if you base mana on IQ, I'd say that pretty much any 32-point arena wizard design would be less effective than one who shifted points from ST to DX or IQ, because extra points in ST would just help you take wounds a little bit (even raising DX and then reducing it with cloth or leather armor would seem almost always a better choice than raising ST in that case)./QUOTE]

If I might stick my oar in here, I think there might be a misconception here. I think what JLV was trying to say and what I understood was that mana and IQ are only linked in this scheme in that one's mana is limited to being equal to the wizard's IQ. It is completely separate from IQ except that one's IQ represents the wizard's ability to focus mana for spell casting.

Just trying to clarify. Excuse me, I'll let myself out now.
Your absolutely correct Warhorse!
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Old 01-18-2019, 10:58 PM   #27
Tenex
 
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Default Re: Mana

I'm still using the house rules I used in the old days. I don't like the new staff rules and don't use those either.

What I do use is this. Wizards primarily cast spells using mana, not ST. Mana equals IQ, but is a separate stat and declines in mana don't affect IQ. Mana is recovered 1 point per 15 minutes. A wizard can cast spells from ST, but this is real damage. So in a true emergency the wizard can dig deep and cast from ST, but it really hurts.

This is just a data point on what works for me. YMMV.
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Old 01-19-2019, 04:52 AM   #28
warhorse11h
 
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Default Re: Mana

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I'm still using the house rules I used in the old days. I don't like the new staff rules and don't use those either.

What I do use is this. Wizards primarily cast spells using mana, not ST. Mana equals IQ, but is a separate stat and declines in mana don't affect IQ. Mana is recovered 1 point per 15 minutes. A wizard can cast spells from ST, but this is real damage. So in a true emergency the wizard can dig deep and cast from ST, but it really hurts.

This is just a data point on what works for me. YMMV.
Did you ever post that, anywhere? I know that I have seen this very idea on the internet before. That's where I first saw it. I think it was on the TFT wiki or the Fantasy Trip webring. If so, please excuse me for appropriating your idea.
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Old 01-19-2019, 11:42 AM   #29
Tenex
 
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Default Re: Mana

http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread...na#post2203484

Post #54 in linked thread. Don't sweat it! Great minds think alike.
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