Building better Supers templates

[Flyndaran]

Batman is superhuman, no question. He just is called human with all of his super powers being meta-advantages controlling reality behind the scenes of the in game universe.
He's the only hero I know of that exemplifies the Xanatos' gambit.

[Infornific]

Originally Posted by whswhs

I think that's a mistaken way to look at it. When I look at the final combat sequence, I see the various characters as playing the roles of different types of military unit: air cavalry for Iron Man, armor for the Hulk, artillery for Thor, infiltration for the Black Widow, ground combat for Captain America, sniper/observer for Hawkeye. Those types of units aren't "equally powerful," but armies find uses for all of them, often together. And you also have Captain America in the role of tactical command, where his abilities are invaluable.

Now, to be sure, that was a better piece of writing than a lot of comic book stories. GURPS Supers could have used more attention to how you make a team with disparate power levels work.

Bill Stoddard

A long time ago, there was a pretty good Roleplayer article called Super Pansies about incorporating low powered characters. It's 3e but has some interesting thoughts. I ran into this problem way back when GURPS Supers first came out. It's said every Supers system has some element that no one can get to work smoothly - in GURPS I think it's character balance. I think the key is Dungeon Fantasy style niche protection.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Infornific

A long time ago, there was a pretty good Roleplayer article called Super Pansies about incorporating low powered characters. It's 3e but has some interesting thoughts. I ran into this problem way back when GURPS Supers first came out. It's said every Supers system has some element that no one can get to work smoothly - in GURPS I think it's character balance. I think the key is Dungeon Fantasy style niche protection.

Something setting sensible only that character can do well.
In a universe known to have supers, imagine how useful the super-normal may be to get through all the barriers vs. supers.

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by Infornific

A long time ago, there was a pretty good Roleplayer article called Super Pansies about incorporating low powered characters. It's 3e but has some interesting thoughts. I ran into this problem way back when GURPS Supers first came out. It's said every Supers system has some element that no one can get to work smoothly - in GURPS I think it's character balance. I think the key is Dungeon Fantasy style niche protection.

This kinda makes sense, in my opinion, but the niches aren't as obvious at first.

Let's look at the MCU Avengers team without their powers:

Steve Rogers/Captain America - the leader and tactician.
Tony Stark/Iron Man - the flamboyant superbrain
Bruce Banner - the more reserved superbrain
Natasha Romanoff/Black Widow - the superspy, infiltration and intelligence gathering expert
Clint Barton/Hawkeye - the sniper and observer, keen eyesight, piloting ability
Hulk - the rampaging near-invulnerable brick
Thor - the skilled warrior

(Not really sure we should add Pietro Maximoff/Quicksilver, Wanda Maximoff/Scarlet Witch, and/or Sam Wilson/Falcon to the team yet.)

So we've got three warriors, two superbrains, and a pair of assassins.

In the comics and movies, it's often a thing to focus on one or two of the characters during downtime - look at Bruce and Tony in the lab, or Natasha's interrogation of Loki. Even in combat, they're all over the place; very little time was spent with the entire team in one spot in Avengers. That can be very hard to do in a game without splitting the party... and a lot of GMs twitch and shudder when the idea of splitting the party shows up.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by tbrock1031

That can be very hard to do in a game without splitting the party... and a lot of GMs twitch and shudder when the idea of splitting the party shows up.

I split the party all the time. It lets me spotlight individual characters; it lets me track separate actions that are all needed to attain a goal; it sometimes lets me go back and forth between actions in spot A that are enabling actions in spot B and vice versa; it allows dramatic tension through changing viewpoint as things are about to get dicey; and sometimes it gives me a few moments to think about what's next.

Bill Stoddard

[Toptomcat]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Super teams are never made of comparably powered members. They only work, because writers force the weaker ones into the spotlight and hamper the powerful ones.

Some approximation of 'plot armor' can be achieved with the use of traits like Luck, Serendipity, Extra Life, Destiny, etcetera.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Toptomcat

Some approximation of 'plot armor' can be achieved with the use of traits like Luck, Serendipity, Extra Life, Destiny, etcetera.

Yep, behind the scenes super powers are still super powers.

[Toptomcat]

Well, not in the sense that they'd qualify for the (Super, -10%) discount. I don't think plot armor goes away when you're trapped in Dr. Zorbo's Power Nullifier.

[Langy]

Originally Posted by Toptomcat

Well, not in the sense that they'd qualify for the (Super, -10%) discount. I don't think plot armor goes away when you're trapped in Dr. Zorbo's Power Nullifier.

Unless, of course, that's explicitly their super power:D

[Otaku]

When looking at fictional examples, it is also important to recognize "power creep": generally the longer a character has been popular the more powerful he, she or it becomes as even slow, steady progress leads to the character buying off (partially or totally) Disadvantages and Limitations, accumulating Social Advantages that would seem odd if they were lacking ("You've been saving the planet how long and haven't made a single Ally, Contact, Patron or earned at least a positive Reputation among a small group?") in addition to actually getting new or stronger powers.

The Marvel Cinematic Universe did a good job of sliding the characters towards a more even power level; no one is at their weakest, but the only ones that I believe are close to their comic book highs are probably Black Widow and Hawkeye (though that is up for debate; I remember when Hawkeye started using Pym particles to enlarge himself). The modern approach to such things helps as well; those without strong offensive powers are allowed the equipment to still at least function as opportunistic, tactical attackers and/or distractions.