Fixing Disengage

[Aman]

I perceive a contradiction of two rule mechanics: IN and Disengage.

IN has the intent that the side choosing to move first has an advantage of positioning, maneuvering, and restricting the opponent [by Engaging usually]. Disengage, however, cancels out losing the IN since you can easily create a team of high-DX fighters who cannot be forced into Combat unless they feel like it- they are supermen! Even with a measly DX of 10 not even the power of a giant matters; he has to stop when coming adjacent and then you Disengage during Combat before the Giant can take a swing at you.

By failing to win IN, you should open yourself up to some sort of consequence, but you don't.

In fact, according to this rule, if I have a dozen warriors all of whom have ONE POINT of DX higher than a dozen opponents [say DX11 to DX10], then one side may NEVER combat the other side, without their consent. And that is just plain broken.

My fix at this point is simple - you have to pass an adjDX roll. So, if you've invested in high DX, fine. But it can still be lowered if you take some damage or are being attacked on the Side or Rear, which is a great tactic for slower combatants against faster ones.

If anyone has any alternatives or if I'm missing some unintended consequence, do chime out!

[hcobb]

How to overcome disengage...

1. Use initiative to force the other side to move first then move to their side or rear for a DX bonus.
2. Use "Waiting for an Opening" (ITL 127) for a DX bonus.
3. Throw your dagger at them over and over again.
4. Use a spear or two-handed polearm to jab them.
5. Move into their hex during movement for HTH.
6. Use a javelin charge to act before they do
7. Throw your ax/mace at them over and over again.
8. Whatever you do, don't take a fnording useless sword!

[Aman]

Originally Posted by hcobb

How to overcome disengage...

1. Use initiative to force the other side to move first then move to their side or rear for a DX bonus.
2. Use "Waiting for an Opening" (ITL 127) for a DX bonus.
3. Throw your dagger at them over and over again.
4. Use a spear or two-handed polearm to jab them.
5. Move into their hex during movement for HTH.
6. Use a javelin charge to act before they do
7. Throw your ax/mace at them over and over again.
8. Whatever you do, don't take a fnording useless sword!

Thanks hcobb. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I only get to throw my dagger / made / javelin / etc once, unless I go and retrieve it. Obviously, shooting them with missiles is a potential TACTICAL solution. Indeed, the threat of a longbow or crossbow would probably force most fighters into action.

As for HTH, you can't force someone into HTH unless you've a higher MA, hit them from the rear, etc. That's another problem I'll hit later. I think you should always be able to try it. As it has a roll, doesn't mean you will succeed, anyway.

[hcobb]

If your opponent is always giving ground you'll have plenty of chances to pick your dagger up off the ground.

[Skarg]

Initiative is a major advantage in combat.

By failing to win IN, you should open yourself up to some sort of consequence, but you don't.

That's not true:

Using your turn to Disengage is just a way to try to avoid combat, or possibly maneuver for a better position. It's not a winning strategy (unless your goal is to taunt a single slower opponent who lacks pole weapons and ranged attacks) and it doesn't negate the advantages of winning initiative.

In addition to the things Hcobb mentioned that overcome initiative, others include:

8. Move your figures such that a target has nowhere to Disengage to, other than places where your figures can still attack them.
9. Hit them first with equal or higher adjDX.
10. Shoot them.
11. Knock them down during Movement with a Push from a horse or other larger figure.
12. Get them with magic.
13. Be willing to move multiple figures up to their full MA to get them locked into a position where they can't get away via Disengage. They can only Disengage if the move 1/2 MA or less, so if there is room to get around them, you can generally cut them off and catch them from multiple directions.


Hopefully you can see from all these points that your conclusion that an all-DX-11 force can always avoid attacks from an all-DX-10 force, is not correct.


I don't find Disengage to be a particular problem. For people who continue to be offended by it, there is also the idea the previous publisher had, to allow the adjacent foes of people who disengage from them, to use an unused action to attack them at a penalty equal to the difference in their adjDX.

[hcobb]

Disengage and apply occult zap is bound to run out of mana after killing a mere dozen foes or so.