04-08-2011, 04:14 PM | #1 |
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Shedim and Kyriotate Resonances in GURPS?
How would you build the resonances of standard Shedim and Kyriotates in GURPS 4th ed terms?
Possession the GURPS advantage doesn't seem at all right for the standard Shedim resonance, which doesn't seem to give them control over the bodies they're inhabiting, only "[desensitizing the] hosts to obscenity by bending their minds to [the Shedite's] celestial will, convincing them that such perversion was their idea". That sounds more like the Mind Control advantage, but then there is the sticking point that the Shedite is physically inhabiting the host form too (some extremely limited form of Possession with a limitation?). And Kyriotates are complicated because they can possess multiple hosts. That could be a combination of Compartmentalized Mind levels and Possession. But that alone doesn't handle the fact that they can only possess up to their Forces in total host Forces. Forces as a concept don't exist in GURPS, but the way it should work is that they could possess a great many "weak" hosts (like all the insects in a swarm), or a human and two dogs, or just several more than two dogs at once, or two humans (if one of them was a child, or two adults if the Kyriotate we were modelling had enough Forces in In Nomine for that). Since character points are a rough indication of relative power in GURPS, it feels like the best way to model it would be to limit their Possession against some total possessible character point value, but I have no idea how to do this. And finally, Shedim of Saminga, and Kyriotates of Laurence - they can possess the dead. What's needed to model that?
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04-08-2011, 04:51 PM | #2 |
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Boston, MA
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Re: Shedim and Kyriotate Resonances in GURPS?
I don't know anything about GURPS at all, but just to clarify one point about the regular IN resonance mechanics: Despite that it's easy to interpret the text as you do, there's been a lot of discussion outside the original rule books to clarify that Shedim DO control their hosts. The hosts interprets what the demons do as their own actions, and can try to regain control if the demon does something particularly heinous, but from a mechanical standpoint, the demon can do whatever it wants.
One way to think about it: It may be confusing for the host to remember later barking out what seems like gibberish to strangers (i.e., a conversation in Helltongue), but that's not something the host would even be able to do if it weren't actual, full-on possession, and Shedim can do that. |
04-08-2011, 04:58 PM | #3 | |
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Re: Shedim and Kyriotate Resonances in GURPS?
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04-08-2011, 08:13 PM | #4 |
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Re: Shedim and Kyriotate Resonances in GURPS?
Only Shedim. Kyrios of Lawrence get a Vessel, like Kyrios of War, but with the limitation that the Vessel's Role is that of a Warrior who died in the line of duty, and the Angel is taking over from the Humans life.
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04-08-2011, 08:42 PM | #5 | |
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Re: Shedim and Kyriotate Resonances in GURPS?
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It also appears someone figured out Shedim of Saminga special possession of the dead ability. It's a combo of Permeate (Flesh) and Telekinesis in GURPS.
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04-09-2011, 02:10 PM | #6 |
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Boston
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Re: Shedim and Kyriotate Resonances in GURPS?
I always interpreted Shedite possession as based on subtle persuasion, but with the player playing both the Shedite and the host human.
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04-09-2011, 03:29 PM | #7 | |
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Boston, MA
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Re: Shedim and Kyriotate Resonances in GURPS?
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Either way, sounds like a fun thing to let more experienced roleplayers handle, though I'd be hesitant to give newer players (or D&D players) control over NPCs. Too easy to just forget that the purpose is to make an interesting story together, and effectively say, "Oh, well, he happens to do what I would want him to do." |
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04-09-2011, 04:22 PM | #8 |
In Nomine Line Editor
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Frozen Wastelands of NH
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Re: Shedim and Kyriotate Resonances in GURPS?
The way I tend to approve of Shedim is... Hm. Mechanically, the Shedite is driving the host around like a stolen car, with occasional Will roll situations if the host goes, "Oh, heck, NO" for some reason. It's just too hard, from a meta-game standpoint, to make it more complicated than that.
Role-playingly, though, having the Shedite's player speak in terms of leading the host around... that's more satisfying. And if the GM can spare the time to make the host sometimes think things that disturb (or please) the Shedite, all the better! http://www.io.com/~arcangel/GamingWa...U/myINIOU.html is a slightly silly crossover of In Nomine and IOU. There is a Shedite of the Game (Mellor) as one of the players. The player in question did Mellor brilliantly, I think -- a mix of unmitigated steering, descriptive stuff about the host interactions, soothing with tentacle kisses... (Not to mention the arguments with one host about who she found sexy. Danny, Malakite of Judgment, was one. Asmodeus was another. Mellor was... unpleased.)
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04-09-2011, 06:28 PM | #9 | |
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Re: Shedim and Kyriotate Resonances in GURPS?
Okay, so I did the Shedim resonance, the way I see it. I added it to the Unofficial GURPS In Nomine for 4ed thread, and also quoted it below. Questions, comments, anything, ideally please post to that thread; I'm trying to respark interest in it as it's been dormant for a few months.
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04-10-2011, 05:20 PM | #10 | ||
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Boston
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Re: Shedim and Kyriotate Resonances in GURPS?
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Diegetically I like to think of the Shedite and host as "thinking aloud" in the same "space" and unable to distinguish between themselves and the other. (Maybe Shedim also have "indoor voices" or maybe the host hears "I hope Baron Shalgezub doesn't find out about this" as "I hope my boss doesn't find out about this;" Idunno.) Since the demon knows there are two voices in there it's at a structural advantage, but its personality will always be very strongly influenced by the host - which is fun for people like me who normally GM because they get bored of characters quickly. My guess as to the demon's ability to explain away oddities is extremely high - if you think "didn't I read about this in the New Yorker...?" or the like, you will very readily confabulated a memory for it. Of course you can extrapolate from there to how Shedim get so crazy. Unrelated, but: Angelic and Helltongue I like to think of as purely musical in form, so that Celestials can talk in a sing-song or rap and transmit the "real" meaning through pitch, beat, &c. (Needless to say, rock hits really do contain subliminal Satanic messages.) Quote:
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Tags |
gurps, gurps in nomine, in nomine, kyriotates, resonance, resonances, shedim |
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