D0: Streamlining the rules

[offsides]

In the LAD spillover thread I raised the issue that D0 is handled differently depending on the unit involved, and that there really needs to be a rules clarification and possibly streamlining of things so that D0 is always treated the same way in the same circumstances. So, let's start with what D0 currently means:

There are at least 3 units in the rules with D0: CPs, Trucks and LADs in pallet form. D0 is also mentioned in the rules for AP guns, Town hexes, and Cruise Missile Shockwave. Here's all the rules I can fine in the Battle Box rules that specifically talk about D0:

3.03 Transport Units. ... Truck (TK). ...a defense strength of 0 – if attacked, it is automatically destroyed. In a town hex, and/or undergoing a spillover attack, it has a defense strength of 1. ...

3.05 Command Post (CP). ... A basic CP has a defense of 0, and will be destroyed by any attack. (In a town hex, count a standard CP’s defense as 1.) ...

14.01 Light Artillery Drone (LAD). ... A LAD on a pallet is treated as a D0 unit; it is destroyed by any attack. Additionally, LADs on a pallet that are being transported suffer spillover attacks at defense strength 0 if the transport vehicle is attacked. ...

7.05.1 AP weapons. Some units have antipersonnel weapons, effective only against infantry (including special infantry types) and D0 units such as a regular (unarmored) CP. ...

Note: Any weapon may be used against infantry. AP weapons are useless against anything except infantry, targets with a defense of 0, and other targets as designated in scenarios. ...

7.14.2 Towns. ... A town hex gives a D0 unit a defense of 1.

10.04 Detonation. - EFFECTS OF MISSILE EXPLOSION (table omitted) * When a D0 unit or CP is hit by the shockwave, roll as for any other unit.

Some things are (mostly) consistent, like any direct attack on a D0 unit destroys it, and that D0 units in Town hexes have D1 (rather than double/triple defense). Also, the clarifying note about D0 units and Cruise Missile Explosions make it very clear how they are handled in that situation, and requires no further discussion in this case. But the underlined segments above contradict each other in terms of mechanics.

• Why is a truck treated as D1 against spillover regardless of terrain, whereas a palletized LAD is treated as D0.
• Are trucks the only units that get D1 against spillover fire?
• Does the explicit D0 of a LAD on a truck override the effects of Town hexes on D0 units?
• If not, what is the purpose of explicitly stating how it reacts to spillover when it's already a D0 unit? (Lets ignore the question of how a CP or palletized LAD is disabled for this discussion.)

These questions lead to 3 needed rules clarifications regarding D0 units and spillover fire.

1. Are all D0 units D1 in Town hexes, or are there any exceptions?
2. Outside of Town hexes, are all D0 units D1 against spillover fire, are some D0 units D1 against spillover fire and other D0, or are all D0 units D0 against spillover fire?
3. If any units can be D0 vs. spillover fire, what is the effect of spillover fire against a unit with D0 vs. spillover fire?

I propose that for consistency, all D0 units are D1 in Town hexes, no exceptions. This keeps things simple, and eliminates the implied LAD pallet exception. For 2 and 3, there are 2 options:

1. All D0 units are D1 vs. spillover fire. This gives them a chance of being unaffected, with being disabled as a worst-case scenario. It also renders question 3 moot, as there is no such thing as D0 vs. spillover fire.
2. All D0 units remain D0 vs. spillover fire.

Now #2 leads to the question of how to handle spillover fire. Since direct attacks are an automatic X, and spillover fire is stepped down on the CRT result, spillover vs. D0 could be an automatic D. However the wording of the CP description (A basic CP has a defense of 0, and will be destroyed by any attack.), implies that any attack against a unit with an effective defense of 0, whether direct or spillover, will destroy it. So I'm inclined to say that a D0 unit undergoing any attack outside of a Town hex, other than from a Cruise Missile detonation, is automatically destroyed.

The real problem with choosing one of the 2 above options is that there's clear text indicating an intent for each of them to happen in specific cases. Trucks are explicitly given D1 against spillover (Shockwave rules); whereas CPs are explicitly stated to be destroyed by any attack (Ogre rules), which certainly implies spillover (although spillover wasn't introduced until G.E.V., and the D1 in Town hexes is listed afterwards implying it's an exception to the any attack rule. Also, it was only added in the ODE combined rules - G.E.V. lists CPs as D1-3). So choosing one or the other will require changing at least one of them to be in line with the other. While both of those wordings appear to part of the original rules, or at least as far back as I can find, I'm thinking that since the wording of the CP rule predates spillover, perhaps it should be revised.

So I suggest we pick the first option, make all D0 units D1 vs. spillover fire, and that renders the question of D0 vs. spillover moot. Now we just have to figure out exactly what disabled means to CPs and LADs...

[Cat]

I'm in favour of simple and consistent.

For a disabled CP, it typically has no game function to start with, so under a D result some of the lower ranks are running around with the kevlar duct tape and cans of expanding insulation foam to patch things up a bit. If scenario rules give CPs a function, then the function is down while disabled.

For a palletised LAD, i would go with the turn under a D does not count as its turn of prepping itself to fire.

[ColBosch]

Excellent analysis, and I agree with Cat's suggestions. I am always happy to see KISS solutions.

[TheAmishStig]

Seeing it in citation format made something clearer to me that was kind of muddy before. Especially when we bring 15.02.1 into the mix.

15.02.1:
The Vulcan’s top cargo area can carry a unit or units totaling Size 4, or four Platoons (or 12 squads), or 12 LADs on pallets, or two dozen Ogre missiles, but these are exposed. Combat units will be exposed to spillover fire from anything that hits the Vulcan. Items on pallets, missiles, and so on will simply be destroyed if the Vulcan is hit.

That makes me think that the missing piece of the puzzle isn't special case rules for D0 units, but rather a clearer distinction between a D0 Unit and Cargo.

Add in taking the time to edit the "truck in spillover" text instead of just copy-pasting, and it tells me the intent was for a palletized LAD to be treated as cargo, not as a unit. If that's the case, seems to me the cleanest way to go about it may be:

D0 Units:

• Are susceptible to AP fire.
• Are destroyed by any attack, unless circumstances lead to it being treated as D1.
• Are treated as being D1 during a spillover attack.
• Are treated as being D1 in a town hex.

Cargo Items:

• Are not considered units.
• Are susceptible to AP fire.
• Are destroyed when targeted by any attack.
• Are not susceptible to spillover fire.
• When being transported, are destroyed by any attack that targets their transport.

LADs:

• Are cargo when palletized.
• Are units during the 'Setup / Diagnostic' turn
• Are units when set up.

For the Command Post conversation: I agree with Cat. If there is no effect for being Disabled, then it should just be immune. There's an argument to be made for "Terrain makes it harder to hit, not harder to destroy"...but rules consistency wins.

Though it's long, the only true rule "change" in the bullet points above is that loose cargo becomes immune to spillover, where before there was no rule in place. And it leaves me with a question, because I had to close the PDF before finding a clear answer in the Battle Box Web Rules: If a truck is subject to spillover fire, is the cargo subjected to anything?

[offsides]

The issue I have with your cargo rules is that it's not consistent with existing rules for INF riding in cargo.

If the vehicle + infantry combination is fired on, the attacker makes one die roll for each attack on the combination, but calculates the odds separately for the vehicle and all the infantry and applies the results separately.
...
Infantry riding in or on a vehicle receive the terrain defensive
bonus that applies to the vehicle, if any, and not the usual bonus
for infantry.

So if a Truck carrying INF is subjected to spillover fire, the INF are attacked along with the truck, and are neither immune to the spillover, nor are they guaranteed to have the same results (ex: 2 INF in the back of a truck are D2 not D1, and could survive unscathed even if the truck is disabled (or a disabled truck is destroyed)). And INF in a truck are definitely not auto-killed when the truck is attacked directly.

OTOH, maybe it's better if INF in cargo are deemed immune to spillover, and only subject to the effects of a direct attack. But then that raises the question of INF riding ON vs IN, etc. I don't know the best answer right now, and I need to think on this a bit more.

[TheAmishStig]

For the purposes of what I wrote, Infantry aren't cargo. They're units.

Cargo in this case refers to literal cargo, stuff that would most likely be represented by tokens, or hash marks on a piece of paper: HWT Missile reloads, Rattler reloads, LADs on pallets, scenario-specific macguffins, etc...not a combat unit (something with A, R, D, and M ratings) that just happens to be in the act of being transported.

[Edited to un-freeze-dry it a little, on a reread it sounded way too curt. :( ]

[GranitePenguin]

Originally Posted by offsides

OTOH, maybe it's better if INF in cargo are deemed immune to spillover, and only subject to the effects of a direct attack. But then that raises the question of INF riding ON vs IN, etc. I don't know the best answer right now, and I need to think on this a bit more.

Originally Posted by TheAmishStig

For the purposes of what I wrote, Infantry aren't cargo. They're units.

Yeah, that's the same place I was going... INF have a defense because they are units able to defend themselves in some capacity. cargo is just deadweight that is subject to whatever happens to it with no recourse to defend.

[offsides]

OK, I can buy that. So by your reasoning, a palletized LAD in the field should also be immune to spillover fire. Because if INF are considered 'units' both in the field and while riding as cargo, palletized LADs (which are not 'units' while riding as cargo) should not be considered 'units' when dropped in a hex. And I'm OK with that.

This would mean that the 3-turn LAD setup sequence would be treated like this:

• Turn 1: Palletized LAD is deployed. It's still considered cargo, and immune to spillover fire.
• Turn 2: LAD unpacks and sets itself up. It is now considered a unit, and susceptible to spillover fire. If hit by spillover, it is disabled normally.
• Turn 3+: LAD is fully operational and can fire as long as it's not disabled.

This works very well, as there's actually no exceptions here - since the LAD unpacks and sets itself up in a single turn, it begins the turn as cargo and ends the turn as a unit, with no possibility of being disabled during setup.

I would like to propose one addition and one modification to the cargo rules:

• Cargo that is overrun while not being transported or in a structure is automatically destroyed if any of the attackers survive the overrun.
• Cargo being transported or in a structure is destroyed when the transport or structure is destroyed.

The former allows cargo (including palletized LADs) to be destroyed by any attacker entering its hex, assuming there's no defender to kill it first. The latter eliminates the case of attacking a transport, rolling a NE, and still killing the cargo. I'd be willing to see a 50/50 chance for the cargo on a 'D' result, but just making it live or die with the transport is simpler. The only rules about cargo other than INF riding in/on vehicles are in the new Vulcan rules (15.02.1). For external cargo, it states:

Combat units will be exposed to spillover fire from anything that hits the Vulcan. Items on pallets, missiles, and so on will simply be destroyed if the Vulcan is hit.

But in that case, I would argue that the phrase "anything that hits the Vulcan" means anything that actually scores a hit (i.e., an X), and nothing else. The implication being that even a near miss isn't going to do enough damage to affect the cargo deck, either because the Vulcan's body is in the way or because it's just not close enough. And that implication actually works well with the "cargo is not affected by spillover" rule, since spillover is from attacks on a different unit, whereas this rule is for attacks on the Vulcan itself, and only for attacks that would have killed a non-Ogre (and thus the cargo carried by a non-Ogre). The only thing that's a little squirrely is that an X on an AP gun or treads would also kill all the exposed cargo, but I suspect that if a Vulcan is carrying stuff externally in a war zone, it's already in trouble :)

[GranitePenguin]

Originally Posted by offsides

The only thing that's a little squirrely is that an X on an AP gun or treads would also kill all the exposed cargo, but I suspect that if a Vulcan is carrying stuff externally in a war zone, it's already in trouble :)

I don't have a problem with this. There's no itemized list of "this type of hit is 'more damaging' than that type of hit;" it's just "a hit."

To your point, though; should there be? Does it make sense that _any_ hit immediately destroys all cargo on top? It certainly seems odd that any hit, especially the treads that are _under_ the cargo on the top of the Vulcan, would result in them being destroyed.

[offsides]

OK, in the interest of sticking to the post title, here's my proposed rules changes (in bold - all existing rules and references are taken from the Sixth Edition, Revised - Battle Box rules):

3.03 Transport Units (add paragraph at the end)

When transporting cargo (anything other than infantry or armor), cargo is considered part of the transport and is destroyed when the transport is destroyed. Disabled transports cannot offload cargo by themselves, but infantry (all varieties) and Vulcans may offload cargo from a disabled transport.

3.05 Command Post (CP). “Command Post” units represent small, unarmored structures. In most scenarios, they are simply targets. A basic CP has a defense of 0, and will be destroyed by any direct attack. (In a town hex or against spillover, count a standard CP’s defense as 1.) Disabling a CP has other effect unless specified in the scenario. CPs have no attack strength except when overrun; then they have a strength of 1.

5.13 Loading, unloading and moving cargo. Trucks and Hovertrucks may load or unload one item of cargo per turn by remaining in place and not moving. One additional item may be loaded or unloaded with the assistance of either a single squad of infantry or a Vulcan or Heavy Drone with at least one functional arm. Items that are unloaded may be loaded into a different transport, or placed directly in the hex or inside a structure within the same hex, but may not be moved out of the hex on the turn that they are unloaded. One squad of infantry may move one item of cargo one hex per turn unless specified otherwise in the scenario. Trains are loaded and unloaded per 9.07 and 9.08, and Vulcans per 15.02.2.

Enemy units may choose to automatically destroy one item of loose cargo per unit when moving into an unoccupied hex. Loose cargo may be deliberately targeted by any unit during the fire phase of its turn. Any targeted attack on loose cargo automatically destroys it.

7.03 Defense strength. The right side of each armor and infantry counter shows its defense strength – e.g., D2. This is the only stat shown on the disabled side of an armor counter, because disabled units cannot move or attack, but can still defend. Any unit with a defense strength of 0 is treated as having a defense strength of 1 against spillover fire.

7.10 Attack resolution (add bullet point)

Any direct attack against a unit with a defense strength of 0 is an automatic X.

7.12.2 Units affected by spillover fire. All units (friendly or enemy) in a hex are affected by spillover fire, except: (a) a unit’s own fire does not spill over onto it, and no spillover fire is
calculated in an overrun; (b) separate spillover fire is not calculated for a tank and the infantry riding it (Section 5.11.2), and (c) Ogres, buildings (Section 11.04), and loose cargo in a hex ignore spillover fire. Bridges in the optional rules (Section 13.02) also ignore spillover, though see Section 13.02.1 for attacks on the center hex of river bridges. Note: attacks targeted against Ogres and buildings (and terrain and bridges in the optional rules) produce spillover fire on other eligible units in their hex.

8.04.1 Overrun attacks and cargo. If loose cargo is present in a hex during an overrun, it may be targeted and automatically destroyed by either side. If all the defenders are destroyed during an overrun, the attacker may choose to destroy one item of loose cargo for each surviving attacker.

9.07 Reinforcements from the train. (3rd paragraph)

Infantry may leave the train freely at the beginning of any turn. Vehicles may only leave the train if it does not move on that turn. Only two vehicles per turn may exit each half of the train. They end their move on any adjacent hex which they can legally enter. Up to 3 squads of infantry, or one armor unit may be loaded onto each hex of the train per turn, provided that they begin their turn in the same hex as the train.

9.08 Train cargo. In addition to Infantry and armor, trains can carry loose cargo. Each hex of the train can load or unload up to 2 items of cargo per turn by itself, and up to 2 additional items can be loaded/unloaded per turn with the assistance of infantry or Vulcans. Cargo may be moved directly from one transport to another (e.g., truck to train, etc.) as long as both transport units spend their entire turn in the same hex.

11.07 Cargo in buildings. Buildings may contain an unlimited number of cargo items. Cargo may be placed into or taken out of a building (by infantry or Vulcans) at a rate equal to its original number of structure points, regardless of how many remain. When a building is destroyed, any cargo inside is also destroyed.

15.02.1 Cargo capacity. 15.02.1 Cargo capacity. The Vulcan has enough internal cargo space to carry a dozen Ogre missiles, or two Platoons (or six squads) of battlesuited infantry if they’re not claustrophobic, or six LADs on pallets, or an equivalent load. This storage space will survive as long as the Ogre does. The Vulcan’s top cargo area can carry a unit or units totaling Size 4, or four Platoons (or 12 squads), or 12 LADs on pallets, or two dozen Ogre missiles, but these are exposed. If any attack on the Vulcan results in an X, combat units on the top cargo area will be exposed to spillover fire, while items on pallets, missiles, and so on will simply be destroyed. The internal cargo area is accessed by a retractable ramp, which was frequently useful in vehicle recovery.

Wow, that's a bit more than I expected, but I believe it covers everywhere either D0 and/or cargo needs to be mentioned (not including my proposed LAD rule changes from the other thread, since they eliminate D0 anyway). I'm not completely happy with the wording and/or placement of some things, so please suggest changes.