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Old 01-18-2019, 04:28 PM   #1
Alonsua
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Default Make contact skill great again.

From an organization perspective and as far as I know, the contact skills are limited to the level 21 according to basic. Are there any rules to surpass the limit, aside of increasing its cost? Does the advantage appear in any other book? What would you think should be the top level and why?

Last edited by Alonsua; 01-19-2019 at 02:18 PM.
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Old 01-18-2019, 04:53 PM   #2
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Default Re: Make contact skill great again.

Not aware of anything that ups the effective skill level as part of the advantage.
However that high a skill can absorb most penalties pretty easily and intrudes on PC capabilities. Someone with that skill should be more an Ally or Patron rather than a generic contact IMO.
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Old 01-18-2019, 05:15 PM   #3
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Default Re: Make contact skill great again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alonsua View Post
As far as I know, the contact skills are limited to the level 21 according to basic. Are there any rules to surpass the limit, aside of increasing its cost? Does the advantage appear in any other book? What would you think should be the top level and why?
On one hand, extending the advantage upward would be a trivial exercise in arithmetic. But on the other, it's perfectly valid to say, "No, no one in the world is that capable," or, "No, you can't start out the campaign knowing history's greatest expert in tactics." Or to say, "Yes, you can have a Contact who's that good, but it's 100 points of Unusual Background for each +3 above effective skill 21."

What is the top possible level depends on the setting. If, for example, you are a member of a tribe of 500 people living in an isolated valley, it would be perfectly plausible for you not to know anyone with effective skill higher than 15 in anything. In a galactic empire, you might have access to effective skills far higher than 21.
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Old 01-19-2019, 02:28 AM   #4
Alonsua
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Default Re: Make contact skill great again.

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
If, for example, you are a member of a tribe of 500 people living in an isolated valley, it would be perfectly plausible for you not to know anyone with effective skill higher than 15 in anything. In a galactic empire, you might have access to effective skills far higher than 21...
if I have understood the advantage well, this implies that it is the score resulting from the sum of the personal skill of the characters, their ability to work in teams and their equipment. Therefore, I infer that a score of 21 is equivalent to a personal skill of 15, approximately.

For this reason and given that, although they are not numerous, the characters at the top of their profession have a personal skill of about 18, the limit should be increased to at least 24. What do you think?
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Old 01-19-2019, 07:36 AM   #5
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Default Re: Make contact skill great again.

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Originally Posted by Alonsua View Post
if I have understood the advantage well, this implies that it is the score resulting from the sum of the personal skill of the characters, their ability to work in teams and their equipment. Therefore, I infer that a score of 21 is equivalent to a personal skill of 15, approximately.

For this reason and given that, although they are not numerous, the characters at the top of their profession have a personal skill of about 18, the limit should be increased to at least 24. What do you think?
It depends on organizational resources. If you have skill 18 and live in a village of 500 people, and in your view your village is "the people" and everyone is is "weird foreigners" or "monsters," then your skill is what you are inherently capable of. If you can draw on the resources of a galactic empire, I could see 24. For an organization in a present-day Earth nation, 21 is probably about right.
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Old 01-19-2019, 08:07 AM   #6
Alonsua
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Default Re: Make contact skill great again.

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
It depends on organizational resources. If you have skill 18 and live in a village of 500 people, and in your view your village is "the people" and everyone is is "weird foreigners" or "monsters," then your skill is what you are inherently capable of. If you can draw on the resources of a galactic empire, I could see 24. For an organization in a present-day Earth nation, 21 is probably about right.
Personal skill of 18 is considered to be "the bests around", i.e. exceptional hostage-rescue operators and snipers or exceptional role-players, pyramid regulars and Kromm impersonators. By TL8 the maximum equipment bonus is +4 and by the invention rules you can receive support for at least an extra bonus of +4, which stands for 18+4+4 = 26, thus I think that a cutting-edge or peak present-day Earth organization should be able to reach 24, dont you think so?
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Old 01-19-2019, 09:31 AM   #7
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Default Re: Make contact skill great again.

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Originally Posted by Alonsua View Post
Personal skill of 18 is considered to be "the bests around", i.e. exceptional hostage-rescue operators and snipers or exceptional role-players, pyramid regulars and Kromm impersonators. By TL8 the maximum equipment bonus is +4 and by the invention rules you can receive support for at least an extra bonus of +4, which stands for 18+4+4 = 26, thus I think that a cutting-edge or peak present-day Earth organization should be able to reach 24, dont you think so?
No, I don't.

The Basic Set provides for up to effective skill 21. While GURPS calls itself "generic" and "universal," that has to be assumed to apply to present-day Earth. Therefore effective skill 21 is the highest that's properly available on present-day Earth. It's reasonable to suppose that the same limit would apply to an ancient empire or medieval kingdom or church; they wouldn't be better than the present day.

Remember that a Contact is someone who has a position in a local organization: a large business firm, a military base, a crime family, or the like. There's nothing in the description that implies that it's a cutting edge organization, or that it has access to the most highly skilled people on Earth. You can suppose, if you like, that that effective skill 21 represents actual skill 18 with +3 from organizational support, or actual skill 15 with +6 from organizational support; but it's not reasonably probable that you will have that confluence of extreme skill and huge resources in one organization.

I don't know where you get the +4 to inventors. I don't see such a rule in the Basic Set chapter on gadgets.

Now, yes, you might have a Contact who is a member not of a typical business firm, military outfit, police force, or the like, but of an extraordinary one. There's a comparable rule in the Basic Set: Unusual Background (Gadgeteer Friend) for 15 points. Paying 15 points is probably fair for having a Contact with skill transcending the normal limits—one who has actual skill 18 or higher AND extraodinary organizational support.

Or you could say that an organization with such amazing capabilities, and one that is willing to put them at the PC's disposal in adventures, is not a Contact but a Patron, and a fairly high-end one.
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Old 01-19-2019, 01:36 PM   #8
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Default Re: Make contact skill great again.

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Originally Posted by Alonsua View Post
By TL8 the maximum equipment bonus is +4
Many skills you might want for a Contact are not especially susceptible to assistance from equipment (some example ones I've used have been Occultism, Criminology, and Architecture). Also, a Contact may well not have the use of equipment provided as part of their job. For example, I, as a real world person, might be a plausible contact at a limited skill level for Research/TL8, or Computer Programming/TL8. Research I can do equally well at home or at work. For Programming, I have access to a lot of computer power at work, but my ability to use it for anything that isn't work is almost nil.
Quote:
and by the invention rules you can receive support for at least an extra bonus of +4
That rule is wholly specific to prototyping an invention, and isn't applicable to skill rolls in general. It also requires assistants with unrealistic skill levels -- anyone that good should be running their own projects -- and seems to be intended only for cinematic inventing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Basic Set, p. 474
… +1 per assistant with
skill 20+ in one of the skills required
for the invention, to a maximum of +4

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Old 01-19-2019, 03:07 PM   #9
David Johnston2
 
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Default Re: Make contact skill great again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alonsua View Post
From an organization perspective and as far as I know, the contact skills are limited to the level 21 according to basic. Are there any rules to surpass the limit, aside of increasing its cost? Does the advantage appear in any other book? What would you think should be the top level and why?
I'm fine with the limit as it stands since it represents not the actual skill level of the contact but the degree to which it can and will help you. The greatest surgeon/politician/pilot/intelligence analyst/stock trader/detective/scientist in the world is going to be a busy person and if you can call upon their full abilities to solve your weekly problems then they should probably be categorized as a Patron or Ally.

One thing I do, do however is treat their skill as more or less a Wild Card skill. Your medical contact can provide you with surgery, infectious disease diagnosis, and hospital gossip with equal facility.
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Old 01-19-2019, 03:10 PM   #10
Alonsua
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Default Re: Make contact skill great again.

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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
One thing I do, do however is treat their skill as more or less a Wild Card skill. Your medical contact can provide you with surgery, infectious disease diagnosis, and hospital gossip with equal facility.
I also do something similar, but I'm trying to finish polishing the content of "Mass Combat" and "Boardroom and Curia" and seems like "Contacts" are the way to go to represent organizational capabilities...
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