Rules for Minions/Mooks

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Black Leviathan

I got into RPGs in the late 70's and it was accepted encounters always had a powerful enemy with a number of weaker minions (Or else it was a single large monster). I don't know where the concept was published or if it was just passed on as tribal knowledge.

This was not universal: the groups I was playing with at the time used more varied encounter structures.

[Stormcrow]

Originally Posted by Black Leviathan

I got into RPGs in the late 70's and it was accepted encounters always had a powerful enemy with a number of weaker minions (Or else it was a single large monster). I don't know where the concept was published or if it was just passed on as tribal knowledge.

Originally Posted by johndallman

This was not universal: the groups I was playing with at the time used more varied encounter structures.

Indeed, there were fewer expected tropes about what an encounter was supposed to look like back then.

However, a possible origin of the idea comes from the AD&D Dungeon Masters Guide. In the appendix on random monster encounters, you're given a table that tells you what monster level to use on a given dungeon level. Sometimes you'll find lower-level monsters in deeper dungeon levels (e.g., 2nd level monsters on the 4th dungeon level). When this happens, you'll generally increase the number of monsters to make up the difference. There are two given exceptions. The first is that encountered characters are increased in level. The second says the following:

Ninth and tenth level monsters are typically given attendant monsters, rather than greater numbers, in lower dungeon levels, i.e., a demon prince encountered on the 11th dungeon level might have a single type I demon attendant, while on the 15th level of the dungeon the same demon prince might have 5 such lesser demons or a pair of type III escorts.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

However, a possible origin of the idea comes from the AD&D Dungeon Masters Guide. In the appendix on random monster encounters, you're given a table that tells you what monster level to use on a given dungeon level. Sometimes you'll find lower-level monsters in deeper dungeon levels (e.g., 2nd level monsters on the 4th dungeon level). When this happens, you'll generally increase the number of monsters to make up the difference. There are two given exceptions. The first is that encountered characters are increased in level. The second says the following:

Well, yes, but again, that's "minions" or "henchman." They may still fight like demons, and not give up at the first injury, or vanish into the hellrealm, or any of the other "easily defeated foe" behavior that "mook" seems to indicate.

[Stormcrow]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Well, yes, but again, that's "minions" or "henchman." They may still fight like demons, and not give up at the first injury, or vanish into the hellrealm, or any of the other "easily defeated foe" behavior that "mook" seems to indicate.

I was responding to the claim that "boss + minions" was published somewhere in rules in the '70s, not that this counts as "mooks." This appeared in the DMG in 1979. This is emphatically not a mook rule.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

I was responding to the claim that "boss + minions" was published somewhere in rules in the '70s, not that this counts as "mooks." This appeared in the DMG in 1979. This is emphatically not a mook rule.

Okay, got it.

[Varyon]

I got into roleplaying late compared to much of the board, but I'd say my first encounter was with the Star Wars Revised Core Rulebook, a d20 book published in 2002, where mook-types didn't have Vitality Points but only Wound Points. VP were the ones that grew with the character to ridiculous heights (basically being DnD HP), while WP were stuck as equal to the character's Con score, regardless of level. With the damage output of most weapons in SWRCR, this typically worked out to mooks dropping in one hit. I think the term was more "non-heroic characters" rather than minions/mooks - the idea was they were characters who lacked the plot protection (VP) of important characters. I don't think d20 had explicit minion rules until 4e (where minions were enemies with normal stats for their level, but only 1 HP), but could be mistaken.