Good Vehicles to introduced new Players to the Game . Thoughts ?

[Racer]

Weekend after next I'll be staying a few days at a friend's place & organising various CW in the Scout Hall near by .

We want to make it interesting for any new players joining in - age group will be mainly 10 to 18 , with few adults as well .

The trouble with Amateur Nights is the Vehicles tend to die extremely quickly - same goes for Div 5 . In these days of short attention spans , this is not good for attracting new players at all .

So we're thinking solid designs with a single or pair of Accurate direct fire weapons , perhaps a Dropped Solid and good all round Armour ? Price range of $7,500 to $20,000 .

To make things simpler & to speed up play , we'll probably have to go with :

1. No direct Tire Shots - if they run over Spikes or Mines that's their look out .

2. No Flame Weaponry - Fires & Explosions at this level of play slow things down dramatically .

3. Worst Crash Table result is a Spin Out - unless they do something REALLY stupid or all Crew are dead .

4. No Dropped Gasses or Launched Grenades - they also slow down play , make targeting more tricky & the Grenades wouldn't be that useful in a wide open playing area anyway .

So Cars or Trikes $7.5K to $20K , no need to worry about Hubs , Guards or Fire Extinguishers . Possibly fairly Sporty - 10 to 15 Acceleration , no dedicated Ram Cars and Tech Level of around VG2 to CWC2 era .

We did similar event about six years ago & had heavily Armoured Mids , equipped with Racing Slicks , blasting the heck out of one another with twin RRs ! It was hilarious and brilliantly fun ! X-D

We're batting various design ideas back and forth , but would like input from anyone else ?

[Magesmiley]

Here's the car I used at OrcaCon for new players in January.

2068 OrcaCon Avenger -- Compact, Heavy chassis, Heavy suspension, Large power plant, 4 Solid Radial tires, Driver w/TC and BA and PFE, Light Laser in Turret, Recoilless Rifle Front w/10 shots HEAT, Plastic Armor: F22, L17, R17, B17, T16, U4, Gear Allocation: [72 lbs. @ Accel 5/Top Speed 117.5], Acceleration 10, Top Speed 120, HC 4, 3998 lbs., $16834

This design has been tweaked over the last 3-4 years and has proven to be a good design to hand out to beginners to teach the game.

I'd actually suggest not worrying about items 1-4 that you're considering and play things normally. The above design does a pretty good job for that.

Tire shots happen, but if the armor isn't much tougher than the tires, they'll usually focus on that. I think I've seen 2 tires losses using the above design in hundreds of players that've used it (or one close to it).

The only chance of fire with the above is the PP getting hit. The laser gives a slight intro to increased fire chances. And the PFE gives them a choice between fighting the fire or their opponent.

Let them crash and have horrible stuff happen. Even when a new player rolls their car, they're usually enjoying the spectacle.

Use 10 acceleration. It simplifies a bunch of things.

Avoid anything even slightly fiddly if you can.

If possible, use some 3D stuff (like die-cast cars, miniatures, or something) instead of counters. It looks a lot cooler.

[TheAmishStig]

Fair warning: MageSmiley is my mentor in the world of Car Wars so the designs will be similar, but here's what I used as my 1D4con 2018 event car:

Midsize, X-Heavy chassis, Heavy suspension, Super plant, 4 Solid tires, Driver with Targeting Computer and Body Armor, Light Laser in Turret, Anti-Tank Gun front w/10 shots standard. Roll Cage, Spoiler, Plastic armor: F/B/L/R 16, Top/Under 10.

Accel 10, Top Speed 120, HC3 (4 at 60mph+) 5192lbs, $17494.

I've found it makes for a lot of difficult decisions, without bringing into play the special case rules and things. Take the low damage easy shot with the laser, or take the risky shot with the big gun? Is the additional HS recovery worth the additional risk of going faster? Stay with a damaged opponent, or break off pursuit to give HS a chance to recover a bit?

The roll cage lets them beat and bang a little more which is always fun. The low armor helps to prevent "this game takes forever, even my big gun is ineffective" loss of interest, and with it "suicide by headon" followed by "nah, I'm good, no need to play again" moments. Max damage being able to go internal on a single shot tempts people to use the big gun, but the armor is still enough that more tactically-minded players can use the laser to keep their opponents' cars unstable, rather than trying to kill with it directly.

Once they've got some seasoning and are looking for longer, more tactical battles, then you can up the armor and distribute it better (I'd move a few points from the belly to the roof, for example) and etc. I've found to really hook new players though, you've gotta encourage the game to be more action-heavy than what an experienced player might be used to...anything you can do to get through those phases and get them their "fire action" tokens back will also help tremendously. (Speaking of, make "Fire Action" and "Speed Change" tokens, even if it's just on 3x5 cards. It'll save you countless 'Can I do...yet?' questions)

I've come to dislike dropped weapons and things for intro games because they slow the game down...but there's something to be said for the entertainment / carnage factor that comes from a well-timed backstab with one...such as a delighted "Oh, you [censored]..." moment when cross-traffic farts a cloud of paint right in front of a car that has no way to avoid it. Might not hurt to keep a design with a paint sprayer on hand for once they get the feel of it and want to go beyond the basics.

[juris]

I agree you shouldn't restrict the rules - but certainly GLs are not good weapons for new players - but that can be taken care of by not using any GL vehicles for your stock designs.

Personally I think you need to focus on flavor instead of stats. Let people chose from a variety of stock vehicles with some personality. Having everyone use the same vehicle seems like a mistake to me. Maybe someone wants a speedster (in which case there should be a way to get points some other way besides killing), a over-gunned thinly armored car for maniacs, a car for pyromaniacs, a sniper, etc.

Give them cool names, cool pictures. Maybe do the same with the crew (cool names, cool pictures, different skill sets etc).

And try speeding up the game - no to hit penalties for maneuvers, X-wing style movement etc

[43Supporter]

_Joseph Special II_:

Mid; Hv. chas.; Imp. Susp.; Su. PP; 4x PR tire; Driver. ATG [F]; MG [B]; PS (Link -- MG) [B]. Armor: F: 30; L, R, B: 25; T: 20; U: 21. $12,336; 5,193 lbs. Acc. 10; TS: 120; HC: 2.

T Option: remove ATG, PS; add 2-sp. Tu., MG [Tu.], 3x HR (linked) [F], 10 pts. Armor (+10 T); move MG, link, to Tu. $12,996; 5,198 lbs.

MD Option: remove MG, PS; add MD [B], 10 pts. Armor [+10 F]; move link to [ATG - MD]. $11,296; 5,198 lbs.

RR Option: remove ATG, PS; add RR [F], MD [B], 29 pts. Armor [F: 40; L, R, B: 30; T: 20; U: 25]; move link to [MG - MD]. $12,500; 5,200 lbs.

Note that at 120 MPH, HC 2 is already into the "need to roll" zone of the handling chart.... >:)

[juris]

I'd go with something like this for a "sporty" option (not my design). Maybe add a SWC and a PFE because missing is frustrating (so is burning to death).

Micro-Mouse Road -- Subcompact, Extra-Heavy chassis, Heavy suspension, Medium power plant, 4 Puncture-Resistant Radial tires, Driver w/BA, Machine Gun Front w/20 shots High-Density, Plastic Armor: F25, L15, R15, B18, T6, U5, Acceleration 10, Top Speed 120, HC 5, 2760 lbs., $7224

[TheAmishStig]

Originally Posted by juris

I'd go with something like this for a "sporty" option (not my design). Maybe add a SWC and a PFE because missing is frustrating (so is burning to death).

Micro-Mouse Road -- Subcompact, Extra-Heavy chassis, Heavy suspension, Medium power plant, 4 Puncture-Resistant Radial tires, Driver w/BA, Machine Gun Front w/20 shots High-Density, Plastic Armor: F25, L15, R15, B18, T6, U5, Acceleration 10, Top Speed 120, HC 5, 2760 lbs., $7224

In my experience, if you were to use that car for an intro game you'd lose them by the 5th full turn, and they'd start suicide-ramming one another to get the game over with shortly after that. It's got way too much armor for that tiny amount of gun...especially with it being in the front arc only, so unless they're in a highway game they won't have many opportunities to shoot.

It'd make a nice "dogfight tournament" car because there's a lot of wiggle room to drive wildly and the only real good way to score hits is to settle in behind and put it on auto...

...but to use that for an intro game I'd cut the armor by 1/2 or 3/5 [8-10 points per facing] everywhere except top and under, ditch the MG front for a LLas Turret, ditch the radials for regular PR tires, then fiddle with the build to keep the acceleration at 10.

[Magesmiley]

Originally Posted by juris

I agree you shouldn't restrict the rules - but certainly GLs are not good weapons for new players - but that can be taken care of by not using any GL vehicles for your stock designs.

Personally I think you need to focus on flavor instead of stats. Let people chose from a variety of stock vehicles with some personality. Having everyone use the same vehicle seems like a mistake to me. Maybe someone wants a speedster (in which case there should be a way to get points some other way besides killing), a over-gunned thinly armored car for maniacs, a car for pyromaniacs, a sniper, etc.

Give them cool names, cool pictures. Maybe do the same with the crew (cool names, cool pictures, different skill sets etc).

And try speeding up the game - no to hit penalties for maneuvers, X-wing style movement etc

One of the big things to remember is that you're teaching them to play first and foremost. And if their first game lasts more than 2 hours these days, you've probably lost them.

With that in mind, it's much simpler and faster to teach players to play if they have the same vehicle and a minimum of fiddly factors (spoilers for example). Giving them choices is a good thing yes, but keeping it to a few simple decisions (which gun to fire, which turn to make) helps a lot. And while dropped weapons look cool, they definitely slow things down and add complexity (more rules to explain) to an intro game.

FWIW, I do my events in a tournament style, with the same car used in the 4 qualifier games, but custom cars (with a wide variety of choices) for the final, once they've played once and have the basics down.

And I do actually stick to the full rules - the to hit penalty for maneuvers is one of those choices things that I teach. I use an unwound version of the speed to hit penalty charts that's easier to understand but gets the same penalties.

[TheAmishStig]

Originally Posted by Magesmiley

And I do actually stick to the full rules - the to hit penalty for maneuvers is one of those choices things that I teach. I use an unwound version of the speed to hit penalty charts that's easier to understand but gets the same penalties.

That unwound speed penalty table is a lifesaver, both for play speed and for intimidation factor.

Speaking of, I've got condensed Movement and Control tables, if you're interested. Takes advantage of patterns and color-coding to remove some of the intimidation factor that comes from looking at them for the first time...wanted to do something about the "Oooh, what's that? Eww, what are those? No thanks..." exchanges I had way too often with walk-ups.

[kjamma4]

Originally Posted by Magesmiley

And I do actually stick to the full rules

I'm sure it blows their mind when you tell them:


Difficulty of maneuver or hazard: The difficulty of the maneuver (or
hazard) that caused the loss of control plays an important part in
determining a crash result. Take the modified Difficulty rating of the
hazard or maneuver, subtract 3, and add the result (negative or
positive) to the Crash Table roll. Thus, a D4 maneuver gives a +1 to the
roll, while a D1 maneuver gives a -2.


This is a great rule but poorly executed. They should have modified the table results by three and then just had you add the Difficulty rating to the roll.

FWIW, after playing at GenCon last year, I'd have no doubt that your players were able to pick up the game quickly with your explanations.