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Old 11-27-2020, 07:03 PM   #11
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Shock Shield

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Originally Posted by Shostak View Post
According to Wizard 5 and ITL 102, all rewnewed spells last until the end of the turn OR until the wizard dies or loses consciousness. So, no, the killer would not take a Shock Shield hit in your example.
One of us is missing something. You do understand that the person who is HTH is not the wizard who cast the spell, right? The wizard is standing nearby and feeling dandy when he considers whether to renew the spell after his compatriot was felled.

If you understood that, then I'm missing something from your reply.
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Old 11-27-2020, 07:06 PM   #12
phiwum
 
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Default Re: Shock Shield

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Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
Just use a Staff I occult zap on the enemy. As a special spell it can't hit your friend.
I don't treat the zap as special. The special is creating a staff. The zap isn't really a spell at all, far as I can tell, but a kind of attack one can make with this magic item.

I use melee rules for Staff I and II and for a two hex range attack for higher skills, I treat it as a missile or thrown weapon when firing into HTH (so roll to hit and then randomly select a target).
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Old 11-27-2020, 10:18 PM   #13
Shostak
 
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Default Re: Shock Shield

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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
One of us is missing something. You do understand that the person who is HTH is not the wizard who cast the spell, right? The wizard is standing nearby and feeling dandy when he considers whether to renew the spell after his compatriot was felled.

If you understood that, then I'm missing something from your reply.
Whoops! Yeah, that was plain as day, but I read is as "in HTH with this fella". D'oh!
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Old 11-28-2020, 12:20 AM   #14
Axly Suregrip
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Default Re: Shock Shield

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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
But my real question is this: Suppose a wizard casts shock shield on a fella in HTH and he gets killed. Often, that will mean his killer is still in the hex at the end of the turn when the spell effects occur. Does the killer take a hit?
Originally Posted by Shostak:
According to Wizard 5 and ITL 102, all rewnewed spells last until the end of the turn OR until the wizard dies or loses consciousness.

Looks like the answer is yes the foe takes damage from the shock-shield.

And the more interesting newly raised question is: can the Shock Shield be maintained the following turn on the friend who is unconscious (ST=0), dying (say ST=-1) or dead character (say ST=-20).

Could other thrown spells be maintained on a man in these conditions? How about casting other maintaining spells on inanimate objects? Like: Invisibility, Reverse Missiles, Spell Shield, Iron Flesh? Maybe you are hiding or protecting a critical cultural item... could this be done? I may allow these spells on inanimate objects but I would never allow it for Shock Shield. The room for abuse is too great.

I can see where your friend dies at ST=-1 by ravenous wolves or vengeful orc that want to make sure he stays dead. Continuing the maintenance of Reverse Missiles or Shock Shield would make sense and fit a game narrative. So at what point does his life force becomes so low that he is now an inanimate object and thus no longer a valid target of Shock Shield. I would put it at ST=-5. Just a swag.

Also note with the above rule you would avoid wizards putting Shock Shield on multiple dying bodies in the same hex. This is because they would then hasten each other to dead. You do it for a turn to four turns best case with two bodies (each taking a die of damage a turn and if started at ST=-1 and only rolled 1 damage each turn... four turns is very unlikely but possible). With 3 bodies with shock shield would mean all three are taking 2 dice per turn you will most likely after 1 turn have no bodies with enough ST to remain viable.
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Old 11-28-2020, 02:24 AM   #15
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Default Re: Shock Shield

What happens when a zombie wrars a Shock Shield rimg?
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Old 11-28-2020, 07:44 AM   #16
zot
 
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Default Re: Shock Shield

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I would think the subject would need to be a living creature, and would need to stay alive for the spell to work.

I would draw the line at whether the creature is combat-significant or not. Does it have a counter and stats? Not normal-sized ants or worms or flies. Probably not plants. Maybe a GM call on some other weird creatures and edge cases, such as undead or ghosts or whatever. As GM, I'd tend to invent a rule with a reason to make this something I can rule on consistently and quickly.
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Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
What happens when a zombie wrars a Shock Shield rimg?
Good example, Henry. Since the spell says it does damage to any other creature in the subject's hex, it seems to me that the best way to interpret "subject" is as a creature.

I agree with Skarg that it should only apply to "combat-significant" characters.

Personally, I'd allow a wizard to cast Shock Shield on a Zombie but probably not an earthworm, even though it's a creature, unless there were already stats for the worm, like it's a Shapeshifted character.

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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Now, this does suggest a path for apprentice wizards who are tired of the guild grind. Rats are definitely critters with stats, so if you have enough strength, you could rid a building of a rat infestation by casting shock shield on one and wait for him to travel back to the nest. Real money could be made if you could cast it on a cockroach.

Obviously, I'm thinking a bit smaller scale than your three to four near dead chokepoint trap. I'd actually be okay with that one, just because the ST required is enormous.
Wizardly exterminators are intriguing.

What about only allowing it on "contextually-significant" characters. During combat, that means figures that already have stats but outside of combat, it could work on cockroaches. I think the "nature of magic" could be a fine justification for that kind of distinction...
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Old 11-28-2020, 08:06 AM   #17
phiwum
 
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Default Re: Shock Shield

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Originally Posted by Shostak View Post
Whoops! Yeah, that was plain as day, but I read is as "in HTH with this fella". D'oh!
Re-reading my post, the pronoun made my intention a bit unclear.
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Old 11-28-2020, 08:30 AM   #18
phiwum
 
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Default Re: Shock Shield

I'm liking Axly's suggestion so far. It deals with some of the conceived abuses nicely.

At some point in the end of life process, we want shock shield to stop working (I presume). I set it at the difference between ST 0 and ST -1, for no good reason other than it is already a game borderline between not dying and dying. But it's easier to make up a reason that a bit of life force is needed to support the spell and one at ST -5 just hasn't enough of that stuff.

I also agree that trying to save a dying ally from being killed outright is more of a legitimate use than a hack to be outlawed and my suggestion doesn't allow it.

Axly's solution doesn't deal with the earthworm nonsense however. The combat significant suggestion kinda does, but only leads to arguments that this earthworm (or that corpse) really is significant, because I desperately want to use it.

Of course, one could use another hand-waving argument that anything that has base ST less than 2 hasn't enough of this life force either. You gotta be more alive than that. This suggestion precludes the wizardly exterminators, sadly, as well as the legitimate use of casting shock shield on one rat in a large stack before they close the distance.

I hadn't started this thread thinking seriously about casting shock shield on little buggers, but Summon Scout + Shock Shield is deadly and there's not much one can do about it that I can see unless he outlaws shock shield on small things. A bat in particular would be really effective, since he's especially hard to kill. It's a cheap and easy assassination method.
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Old 11-28-2020, 02:24 PM   #19
Skarg
 
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Default Re: Shock Shield

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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Seems to me one of the important uses is to aid a buddy who's in HTH. Far as I can tell, one can cast a thrown spell into HTH without any problem, but maybe I've missed something. Missile spells would surely be the same as missile or thrown weapons, where the target hit is random. Thrown spells don't usually have a roll to miss mechanic, so I presumed they can be cast on the right target in HTH.

Y'all let me know if you treat thrown spells cast into HTH differently.
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Old 11-28-2020, 02:34 PM   #20
Skarg
 
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Default Re: Shock Shield

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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
I don't treat the zap as special. The special is creating a staff. The zap isn't really a spell at all, far as I can tell, but a kind of attack one can make with this magic item.

I use melee rules for Staff I and II and for a two hex range attack for higher skills, I treat it as a missile or thrown weapon when firing into HTH (so roll to hit and then randomly select a target).
Yeah, I agree with you on this. Also in (off-topic?) comparison to Shock Shield, they don't bypass armor, can't be maintained, and don't damage all other figures in the subject's hex.

Back on topic, having slept on it, I'm thinking my house-ruling will probably be that the subject has to be aware and conscious, and probably IQ 3 or more, ruling out most dying people, slimes, and plants.
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