07-14-2016, 10:48 AM | #71 | |
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Re: Swords and plate
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFjBZF-IlY8 |
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07-14-2016, 11:01 AM | #72 | |
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Behind You
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Re: Swords and plate
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07-14-2016, 11:33 AM | #73 | ||||||||
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Swords and plate
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EDIT: also what was said was "A simple rule, for those persuaded that swords should never cut through armor, would be to give all sword-like weapons swing damage an armor divisor of (0.5). " Quote:
And I think you should re read my posts in this thread, especially in the light of your accusation of shifting goal posts. For instance in post 25 I actually used that exact word "sub-optimal" to describe sword etc against such armour. Quote:
And in the context of a thread regarding historical armour are we talking about armour 350 microns thick? Shifting goal posts much? Quote:
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EDIT: hang on if this has all just been about specific dislike of way the the edge protection rule go about doing something, than OK I bit more on board with that, but I think it kind of went on from there into some rather more fundamental disagreement about historical performance. Last edited by Tomsdad; 07-17-2016 at 01:08 AM. |
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07-14-2016, 11:40 AM | #74 | ||
Icelandic - Approach With Caution
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Reykjavík, Iceland
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Re: Swords and plate
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The quote also mentions that they were used to impale. I'm not trying to claim anything, just thought to point out that the halberd has more than one attack mode. |
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07-14-2016, 11:53 AM | #75 | |
Join Date: Jul 2012
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Re: Swords and plate
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07-14-2016, 12:00 PM | #76 | |
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Swords and plate
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My god there seems to be two very different threads going on in here! Anyway cheers TD |
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07-14-2016, 12:03 PM | #77 | |
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: Swords and plate
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Armor measured here ranges from 28 mils (750 microns) - to 285 mils, or about 7,200 microns. So which "historical armor" are *you* talking about, since it varies by 10x in thickness for those seven breastplates measured, and can vary within the breastplate itself by by a factor of 2-4? Can the axe cut through the (more or less) DR 2 thin bits? I bet it can. Can it cut through the 1/4" thick parts (probably DR 12-14+)? Well, no. Are all of these historical armors? Obviously. So when you say "can't cut through" which one of these are you talking about? Which PART of which one of these? You have seemed to be arguing that the axe vs ANY plate is simply a waste of time, could never penetrate. If that's not your position, please feel free to clarify.
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07-14-2016, 01:13 PM | #78 | |||||
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: Swords and plate
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*I am not a physicist - please let me know if I made any grave errors in my assumptions here. **The actual base is closer to 5 cm; 4 cm is the width around the point where it's all the way through the target's body and is contending with the armor at his back. Quote:
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All that said, the text certainly does imply that cutting weapons (or at least halberds and similar) are more effective against armor than LT implies. Quote:
I don't think this was ever in question, the question was if swing cutting weapons ever cut through plate armor on the battlefield. Such weapons aren't useless if they're unable to do this - they still perform perfectly well if striking unarmored bits (or bits armored with mail or lesser armor), and the blunt trauma they can deliver through armor (particularly helms) can still be deadly. Last edited by Varyon; 07-14-2016 at 02:08 PM. Reason: screwed up the penetration calculation |
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07-14-2016, 01:39 PM | #79 | ||
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Re: Swords and plate
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07-14-2016, 01:53 PM | #80 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dobbstown Sane Asylum
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Re: Swords and plate
<MOD>
It looks like I'm coming in as the fire is starting to go out, so let me just throw some water on it to make sure. Everyone, please keep in mind that this is a discussion about a game. It's not really a big deal in the broad view. So if you can't disagree with someone without getting angry, snarky, riled up, etc. -- just walk away. If one particular person is bothering you, put 'em on your ignore list (though preferably without making a snarky comment about doing so first). Consider this a blanket Official Warning to play nice, and a reminder that "he started it" isn't a valid defense. Don't rise to bait. If I or another mod has to bust out infractions, we'll be tossing them at everyone involved in the fight. </MOD>
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