Steam train

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

First, why would you shoot everyone?

Seems to be the point of your suggestion.

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

set up all your shooters to cover where the target will have to stop.

Presumably these shooters have been instructed to shoot some people, and "all your shooters" sounds like a fair number. Perhaps they're only there to fire a couple of warning shots and intimidate others, not that you'd need to many for a few demonstration shots *shrug*

Second, why would you destroy the track? Blocking it will do.

You were supporting Luke in saying that simply preventing the line from being in use was going to draw much more ire than stealing the train. "Blocking" as opposed to "destroying" doesn't make a lot of difference here. Sure, those rails are still intact under the landslide and rubble you brought down in the canyon... But carrying a few more segments of rail to replace
the twisted ones isn't the hard part of repairing that track.

A simple blockage that can be easily cleared is the same as just cutting a rail that can be easily replaced, when it comes to disrupting the rail line for other transport. Neither one is hugely economically threating -- which was the original suggestion (damage to the track being considered far more destructive than theft or robbery of the train, and prohibitively more so when it came to PC planning).

Different subject there. That was a suggestion as to why the PCs might actually be wanting to capture the train, again as the OP specifies, rather than just rob it and then release it.

It's the same subject, since it's follow-on actions to the same attack on the train. Now you're suggesting destroying a railroad terminal in addition to the other damage caused by the crime. It seems to me that you're claiming that (1) track damage plus (2) murder plus (3) train theft plus (4) terminal destruction is less offensive to the powers that be than just (1) track damage plus (2) murder plus (3) train theft.

No doubt you can assume some scenario where track damage is so high, enough bridges destroyed and miles of track uprooted, that it outweighs destruction of the railroad terminal facilities, and all those buildings, supplies, and facilities. Or you could assume the opposite. But at that point, the discussion is off in the weeds of detail, and the conclusion depends on the assumptions the table wants to make, so it's really up the OP anyway.

It was a fairly minor point to begin with, so I don't see much reason to continue beating the dead iron horse to the detriment of the thread.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

Seems to be the point of your suggestion.

Presumably these shooters have been instructed to shoot some people, and "all your shooters" sounds like a fair number. Perhaps they're only there to fire a couple of warning shots and intimidate others, not that you'd need to many for a few demonstration shots *shrug*

Why would you presume that?

You've got all your shooters covering it so that the train occupants can't simply detrain and clear the obstacle, and so that they can't defeat your force by attacking into the ambush. You only need to actually shoot them if they aren't dissuaded from doing so by the fact that they're on a stopped train surrounded by all your shooters. Criminal activities generally expect that NPCs won't act like suicidally aggressive dungeon mobs.

And because there's no reason to have any shooters be elsewhere, I suppose, since there's not really another relevant location in this exercise.

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

You were supporting Luke in saying that simply preventing the line from being in use was going to draw much more ire than stealing the train. "Blocking" as opposed to "destroying" doesn't make a lot of difference here. Sure, those rails are still intact under the landslide and rubble you brought down in the canyon... But carrying a few more segments of rail to replace
the twisted ones isn't the hard part of repairing that track.

A simple blockage that can be easily cleared is the same as just cutting a rail that can be easily replaced, when it comes to disrupting the rail line for other transport. Neither one is hugely economically threating -- which was the original suggestion (damage to the track being considered far more destructive than theft or robbery of the train, and prohibitively more so when it came to PC planning).

...Yes, I also specifically said that minor damage to the rails would not be a serious disruption to the lines. I think this is the third time I've done so. I have no idea why you decided 'block the rail' translates to 'destroy large portions of the landscape'. It's the opposite.

Mining the tracks (let alone the bridge) was your suggestion, which would be significant destruction of the line as well as the train.

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

It's the same subject, since it's follow-on actions to the same attack on the train.

No, it's not. It's an alternative answer to your question of why stop the train: because you need the train itself to use for some adventurous gambit.

[Varyon]

Another good reason to steal a train rather than destroy it and take what you need from the wreckage - trains can carry a lot of stuff fairly quickly and efficiently, which is kind of their whole point. If you're trying to steal a few gold ingots, sure, you can just blow it up, grab the loot, and go. If you're trying to steal a large shipment of iron, lumber, food, munitions, and/or whatever else the train is hauling, looting the train only lets you take whatever fraction of that you and your horses can safely carry ("safely" here also meaning you need to still be able to move quickly enough to get away), while stealing the train lets you take all of it. Do it right, and it can also prevent you from raising suspicions - a group of heavily-laden horses and riders showing up in town when a train that's supposed to pass through carrying a lot of goods is late draws more suspicion than that same train just passing on through (technically with a different crew - or perhaps the same crew, but with hidden hijackers training weapons on them - but you should be able to conceal that if anybody would notice in the first place).

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Varyon

A, while stealing the train lets you take all of it. ).

Only to places that are warehouse-sized and very close to the train tracks. Few of these are likely to be good hiding places.

If you do have warehouse located on the tracks you'd probably be better off forging shipping orders and leaving the train alone. You're alos probably in a built-up area and not eyeing trains as they pass through thinly populated wildernesses.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Only to places that are warehouse-sized and very close to the train tracks. Few of these are likely to be good hiding places.

If you do have warehouse located on the tracks you'd probably be better off forging shipping orders and leaving the train alone. You're alos probably in a built-up area and not eyeing trains as they pass through thinly populated wildernesses.

It's all going to be very context-dependent. Perhaps the tracks go through multiple independent polities (likely for a post-apocalyptic setting, as in the OP) and you're basically stealing the train that was bound for one polity (that you're on - or at least willing to be on - bad terms with) and rerouting to another (that you're on better terms with, and that isn't on good terms with the polity you stole from, such that you can readily sell your cargo). Perhaps it works out better for you if you can steal the train at an ideal ambush-point, then take it to a point closer to your bandit camp (or whatever) and dump the cargo (which can be quickly transported by wagons going back and forth), then go elsewhere to abandon the train (preventing the relevant authorities from working out where your camp actually is). Perhaps some trains in your setting engage in speculative trading, and the heist is actually to steal the train and act like you're the rightful owners to sell off the cargo at the originally-intended destination.

Or maybe you're not all that great at this "bandit" business and you have a plan that reads:
1) Setup temporary blockage
2) Steal train
3) ????
4) Profit!

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Varyon

It's all going to be very context-dependent. Perhaps the tracks go through multiple independent polities (likely for a post-apocalyptic setting, as in the OP) and you're basically stealing the train that was bound for one polity (that you're on - or at least willing to be on - bad terms with) and rerouting to another (that you're on better terms with, and that isn't on good terms with the polity you stole from, such that you can readily sell your cargo). Perhaps it works out better for you if you can steal the train at an ideal ambush-point, then take it to a point closer to your bandit camp (or whatever) and dump the cargo (which can be quickly transported by wagons going back and forth), then go elsewhere to abandon the train (preventing the relevant authorities from working out where your camp actually is). Perhaps some trains in your setting engage in speculative trading, and the heist is actually to steal the train and act like you're the rightful owners to sell off the cargo at the originally-intended destination.

Or maybe you're not all that great at this "bandit" business and you have a plan that reads:
1) Setup temporary blockage
2) Steal train
3) ????
4) Profit!

Railroad border crossings are always going to be secured - you won't be passing through without inspection unless the two sides of the border have exceptional relations.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Railroad border crossings are always going to be secured - you won't be passing through without inspection unless the two sides of the border have exceptional relations.

The trains could be heavily guarded as well. Even in the US in the 20s Marines guarded mail cars with shotguns and tommy guns. They could also be found patroling backroads with cars and motorcycles with BARs.

In the warlord-torn China of the same time it was tommy guns, C96 Mausers/he zi pao and swords. You could look into warlord-era China as a sort of guide but there was a surprising amount of production of knock-offs of Western guns and railroad guards ate up a lot of it.