GURPS and Harn

[Warden]

I'm looking to use GURPS with Harn but I'm not sure of the best way to go about it. There's a few conversions out there but they seem to be for 3ed.

Can anyone recommend a 4ed GURPS/Harn conversion please?

Also, is Ritual Path Magic here: www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/ritualpathmagic

Found in GURPS Thaumatology, or is it like it says a stand alone prodcut?

Finally, I've read the blurb but what setting exactly might I use Ritual Path magic in?

Thanks all.

[Refplace]

Its a standalone that first appeared in Monster Hunters.
Its for a flexible system, probably too much so for a harn setting.

[Warden]

Originally Posted by Refplace

Its a standalone that first appeared in Monster Hunters.
Its for a flexible system, probably too much so for a harn setting.

Thanks Refplace

[corwyn]

Yeah, I haven't seen any 4e Harn stuff. Personally, I would just go with Michael Cule's 3e Harn conversion. Nothing really needs much changing aside from his system for religious magic though you might find something in Thaumatology that works.

http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/Rolepla...URPS-Harn.html

I ran a Harn game for about 3 years using this as a starting point. The only thing I changed in a big way was the above religious magic. I wanted something a bit more subtle and cribbed from Path Magic, mostly adapting existing rituals to the various gods, making up a few of my own for the two clerical characters and just winging it for NPCs.

[Michael Cule]

This comes up regularly (checking back I see the last time I posted something about it was just over a year ago) and I'll give you my current thoughts on the matter as I always do...

It depends on how much work you want to do and how much of the individual flavour of Harn is important to you. There's a lot of systems now available for GURPS which can help you but what you choose to work on is very much a matter of taste.

I've changed my mind slightly over the past year and I'd now see the way to go with magic and miracles would be to give the priests a variant of Ritual Path Magic with each deity having their own path skill. This would mean slower but more powerful magic which would have to be prepared beforehand to be of use in combat (so your priests of Agrik would bless weapons to burst into flames in lengthy rituals rather than calling it up on the spur of the moment). You should also allow Priests and devout worshippers (a Perk) access to Divine Intervention: I like the model which requires sacrifice of saved Character Points to attract divine attention.

I would give the Shek-Pavar Realm-based Syntactic magic with the ability to have 'rotes' or pre-generated fixed effect spells which cost a Perk point. They would also have a penalty to using spells of opposing convocations until they made Grey Mage.

Neither of these is the easy option. If you want easy then preserve the main magic rules and give the Priests Ritual Magic and make the convocations of the Shek-Pavar Magical Styles.

I hope that's some help: the 3e adaptation is good as far as it goes but is very old now. (As am I!)

[tshiggins]

Originally Posted by Michael Cule

This comes up regularly (checking back I see the last time I posted something about it was just over a year ago) and I'll give you my current thoughts on the matter as I always do...

It depends on how much work you want to do and how much of the individual flavour of Harn is important to you. There's a lot of systems now available for GURPS which can help you but what you choose to work on is very much a matter of taste.

I've changed my mind slightly over the past year and I'd now see the way to go with magic and miracles would be to give the priests a variant of Ritual Path Magic with each deity having their own path skill. This would mean slower but more powerful magic which would have to be prepared beforehand to be of use in combat (so your priests of Agrik would bless weapons to burst into flames in lengthy rituals rather than calling it up on the spur of the moment). You should also allow Priests and devout worshippers (a Perk) access to Divine Intervention: I like the model which requires sacrifice of saved Character Points to attract divine attention.

I would give the Shek-Pavar Realm-based Syntactic magic with the ability to have 'rotes' or pre-generated fixed effect spells which cost a Perk point. They would also have a penalty to using spells of opposing convocations until they made Grey Mage.

Neither of these is the easy option. If you want easy then preserve the main magic rules and give the Priests Ritual Magic and make the convocations of the Shek-Pavar Magical Styles.

I hope that's some help: the 3e adaptation is good as far as it goes but is very old now. (As am I!)

I ran a GURPS: Harn campaign for many years, and we used GURPS 3e standard magic in which I'd culled out some (a lot of) spells, and then assigned different colleges to various chantries. I winged religious miracles, since nobody in the group wanted to play a cleric or paladin, anyway.

In retrospect, the magic part didn't work that well, in the campaign. It gave the setting entirely too much of a "High Fantasy" vibe.

Were I to re-do it (and I've toyed with the notion of a second campaign set a few years after the first ended), I'd use Ritual Magic, for sure.

I don't know that you'd have to work all that hard to create new spells for the various chantries, either. At this point, there are a ton of existing rituals already defined -- enough so that one could sort through them, and then cut-and-paste to suit.

I would highly recommend you restrict access to combat magic to Gray Mages. Make the mage characters members of one of the other chantries, and limit the spells available at character creation, to only those available to that chantry.

Following the prescriptions of Save-K'nor ("Knowledge without wisdom sheds no light"), allow Gray magic spells only to those who have demonstrated the social responsibility required to wield them, wisely (i.e., conservatively). Also, make sure the White Hand puts in an appearance at least once, to demonstrate that "wise, quiet and careful use of magic" isn't just a "good idea," it's the law, and the law will be enforced --swiftly and mercilessly, if called for.

Also, make sure any cleric or paladin characters know that part of their job is to protect the existing social order against any disruptions (because social disruption, on Harn, likely results in the destruction of that society by barbarians, Gargun, interdimensional interlopers, or any number of other outside threats).

On Harn, eternal vigilance is the price of basic survival.

[Warden]

Originally Posted by Michael Cule

This comes up regularly (checking back I see the last time I posted something about it was just over a year ago) and I'll give you my current thoughts on the matter as I always do...

It depends on how much work you want to do and how much of the individual flavour of Harn is important to you. There's a lot of systems now available for GURPS which can help you but what you choose to work on is very much a matter of taste.

I've changed my mind slightly over the past year and I'd now see the way to go with magic and miracles would be to give the priests a variant of Ritual Path Magic with each deity having their own path skill. This would mean slower but more powerful magic which would have to be prepared beforehand to be of use in combat (so your priests of Agrik would bless weapons to burst into flames in lengthy rituals rather than calling it up on the spur of the moment). You should also allow Priests and devout worshippers (a Perk) access to Divine Intervention: I like the model which requires sacrifice of saved Character Points to attract divine attention.

I would give the Shek-Pavar Realm-based Syntactic magic with the ability to have 'rotes' or pre-generated fixed effect spells which cost a Perk point. They would also have a penalty to using spells of opposing convocations until they made Grey Mage.

Neither of these is the easy option. If you want easy then preserve the main magic rules and give the Priests Ritual Magic and make the convocations of the Shek-Pavar Magical Styles.

I hope that's some help: the 3e adaptation is good as far as it goes but is very old now. (As am I!)

Thank you for sharing your thoughts Michael.

Unfortunately, I'm quite new to GURPS, having only played the game about 4 or 5 times around 4 years ago (I've never once GM'd it). So what you propose is lost on me - currently at least. Hopefully when I'm more acquainted with GURPS I'll tackle it head on.

As for the flavour of Harn, I'd be looking to maintain as much of it as possible; I think it's a fantastic setting and GURPS is a great fit for it too.

Is there no chance of you updating your work?

[Michael Cule]

Originally Posted by Warden

Is there no chance of you updating your work?

Not in the near future. If I were to buckle down and do some game design work I'd be devoting my time to my REIGN OF THE PETAL THRONE project.

[The Colonel]

If I ever get around to running Harn material - and I would like to, given the amount of high quality stuff available, I would definitely aim for a GURPS conversion ... I've seen the Harnmaster rules and they don't give me a good feeling, but GURPS can certainly do the sort of "gritty realism" that "certain other fRPG systems" lack and Harn seems to need.
I think ritual magic is a must - even Harnmaster's spell slinging system doesn't seem to fit the world it was written for. Book/path magic would seem appropriate to me whilst Spirit mediated magic would probably be better for the "divine casters".

Oh, and I'd want to tear all of the pseudo-Tolkein nonsense out and burn it, likewise all that "heaven is on another planet". Elves and dwarves can be without cross-referencing the Simarrilion.

[Michael Cule]

Originally Posted by The Colonel

Oh, and I'd want to tear all of the pseudo-Tolkein nonsense out and burn it, likewise all that "heaven is on another planet". Elves and dwarves can be without cross-referencing the Simarrilion.

It was the 80s. And very, very early on in the history of the hobby. I wonder what Robin Crosby would do differently now.