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Old 02-24-2016, 07:07 PM   #1
FF_Ninja
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default How to make magic use friendlier?

I'm in the process of putting together a fantasy campaign (and actually a campaign world, from the ground up). In the process of this, I find myself going over the GURPS: Magic system a few times. While I don't mind complexity, it isn't exactly "pick up and go" and does require significant player investment (in order to understand proper spell use, plan ahead, develop a capable spell library, etc).

This isn't my quandary, however.

Unless I've been doing it wrong since I picked up GURPS - which is a valid possibility - Magic is something most mages (read: mages that aren't walking around in a Very High Mana Field or that don't have some sort of absurd energy regeneration from some source) are only able to utilize magic very infrequently. The reason for this is, frankly, energy/fatigue costs. Even with a high-HT character (and most mages aren't exact Olympic athletes), a small handful of spells (or one or two large ones) will leave him effectively spent for hours.

Of course, my perspective might be a bit skewed - YMMV, am I right? - so I'm here to pick your brains.
  • Without buckets of CP into exotic advantages, is my assumption on the limited rate of spell usage accurate?
  • In your GURPS travels, have you ever run across a magic system that allowed for more regular, consistent magic use? Did it work out well?
  • If I were to develop a world where magic was more frequently used (like, say, the Harry Potter universe), could you pose any theories as to how I could manage that?
  • Do you feel like the GURPS magic system is perfectly fine as it is?

I briefly considered a few possibilities - making the entire planet a Very High Mana field, or increasing the rate at which energy (not FP) regenerates - but I suddenly realized that I shouldn't rely entirely on my limited experience. You guys have more games under your belt than I could play in a lifetime.
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Old 02-24-2016, 07:23 PM   #2
Nereidalbel
 
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Default Re: How to make magic use friendlier?

Unless you want your players to invest in Energy Reserve or buy a lot of Powerstones/Paut, the "standard" Magic system isn't so great. Alternative systems tend to trade either higher point costs or more time spent to be more reasonable in sustained casting ability. Ritual Path Magic is a personal favorite, so long as Ritual Adept is a thing, or, plenty of time to set up Charms and Conditional Spells exists.
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Old 02-24-2016, 07:24 PM   #3
Refplace
 
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Default Re: How to make magic use friendlier?

I loved the Basic magic system and it was a major improvement in my mind over other systems at the time.
Magic as skills and learning how to do simple spells before more complex ones, was really cool.
That said there are a variety of tastes and GURPS has the tools and example systems to fit almost any desire.
Others will come along to tout their favorites so Ill address the basic system here.
Most mages will build themselves so they have a skill of 15 for 1 point.
So -1 FP cost for every spell, and that is a huge difference.
Key combat spells will be pushed higher if possible for the next breakpoint at 20 or better 21.
Recover ST, Breath Control and even a modest powerstone are also key desires.
D&D when I started was the major competitor and a 1st level mage was good for 1 spell for the day.
A GURPS mage is good for a couple of spells each combat, even on a modest budget. And rest up lets you be at full power in a fairly short time.
Energy Reserves and Threshold Magery are additional options.
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Old 02-24-2016, 07:34 PM   #4
FF_Ninja
 
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Default Re: How to make magic use friendlier?

I'm just trying to develop a world, or adapt the system in such a way, that magic users can use magic regularly. The more I dig into the magic system for GURPS, the more I discover its intricacies - and it's definitely intriguing, at least to me - but an average, everyday mage - 100-point standard for any average character, less if I put together a magic-user template - basically feels like little more than a revolver with three or four bullets you may reload every few hours.

Then again, I might have the wrong idea when it comes to mages being as useful as I think they should be. I'm not even talking about exclusively combat, either. I'd like to think that magic has a whole plethora of uses in day-to-day activity. Magic is already restrictive enough, what with having to buy prerequisite Magery and then purchase a large variety of H/VH spell skills just to do a handful of very specific things.
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Old 02-24-2016, 07:38 PM   #5
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Default Re: How to make magic use friendlier?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
D&D when I started was the major competitor and a 1st level mage was good for 1 spell for the day.
A GURPS mage is good for a couple of spells each combat, even on a modest budget. And rest up lets you be at full power in a fairly short time.
Energy Reserves and Threshold Magery are additional options.
Yeah, see, I might actually be over-stating how potent or capable a mage should be. A smart apprentice built on a 100 or 150 point budget should be able to do those things you mentioned - although I highly doubt they're going to have any spells as high as 15, let alone 20 - not without some significant base Magery and very good IQ.

By the way, I'm not familiar with Threshold Magery.
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Old 02-24-2016, 07:39 PM   #6
Nereidalbel
 
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Default Re: How to make magic use friendlier?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FF_Ninja View Post
but an average, everyday mage - 100-point standard for any average character, less if I put together a magic-user template - basically feels like little more than a revolver with three or four bullets you may reload every few hours.
There's your problem. At 100 points, a mage has about as much power as somebody who just stepped into Hogwarts yesterday. At 250 points, mages become quite playable, and can generally do a lot of casting in a day.
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Old 02-24-2016, 07:45 PM   #7
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Default Re: How to make magic use friendlier?

If energy is your concern, pop open Thaumatology book, turn on Threshold magic, and up the regeneration speed of energy. Your mages will be nuking the world no problem.
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Old 02-24-2016, 07:49 PM   #8
FF_Ninja
 
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Default Re: How to make magic use friendlier?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nereidalbel View Post
There's your problem. At 100 points, a mage has about as much power as somebody who just stepped into Hogwarts yesterday. At 250 points, mages become quite playable, and can generally do a lot of casting in a day.
Eheheh. I try to develop my expectations in tiers. 250 points is pretty common for players, but even by GURPS standards, that's a larger-than-life character. It's sad, but I feel like a lot of players, especially those newer to GURPS, don't know what to do with 250 points.

I agree with your assessment, though. I should track down some well-known mage character sheets (Elminster, Gandalf, Raistlin Majere, etc) and see if I can't get a solid idea of what the stereotypical mage's power level is.
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Old 02-24-2016, 07:49 PM   #9
Refplace
 
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Default Re: How to make magic use friendlier?

A 100 point mage is rather basic. My first edition mages were built on that.
Dungeon Fantasy uses 250 point characters.
Threshold Magery is in GURPS Thaumatology. Basically it replace your personal energy store with a daily tally. More Burst and sprinting less long distance running is what it does to Magic.
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My GURPS fan contribution and blog:
REFPLace GURPS Landing Page
My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items)
My GURPS Wiki entries
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Old 02-24-2016, 07:52 PM   #10
Nereidalbel
 
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Default Re: How to make magic use friendlier?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FF_Ninja View Post
Eheheh. I try to develop my expectations in tiers. 250 points is pretty common for players, but even by GURPS standards, that's a larger-than-life character. It's sad, but I feel like a lot of players, especially those newer to GURPS, don't know what to do with 250 points.

I agree with your assessment, though. I should track down some well-known mage character sheets (Elminster, Gandalf, Raistlin Majere, etc) and see if I can't get a solid idea of what the stereotypical mage's power level is.
There are plenty of realistic humans that could be built on 250 or more points. A lot of athletes and Olympians are probably pushing that value, really. Throwing in the cost of Magery, 250 isn't really hard to believe for a reasonable character.
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