Need Help Building Tunneling Power

FireDrakeK · 04-16-2017, 06:21 PM

I've been over Powers, Super, The Dungeon Fantasy series, and more. Any help figuring this out would be very appreciated.

Okay, so If i had the ability to place my hand on a cliff face of a mountain, and disintegrate the mountain until there was a tunnel 10 yards long in front of me, that seems to me to be pretty much a just cinematic description of tunnel (probably about level 20?), but mechanically by the end of digging that out, i'd be at the end of the tunnel, 10 yards inside the mountain.

What i want is for the tunnel to be created in front of me, so that when i'm finished i'm still at the opening of the tunnel. I want to be able to create a tunnel much longer than my basic speed, and then have to use my own basic speed to travel down it.

Also, i'd love to be able to widen the effect, make the tunnel large enough for the whole party to move inside it at once.

Thanks.

Christopher R. Rice · 04-16-2017, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireDrakeK

Okay, so If i had the ability to place my hand on a cliff face of a mountain, and disintegrate the mountain until there was a tunnel 10 yards long in front of me, that seems to me to be pretty much a just cinematic description of tunnel (probably about level 20?), but mechanically by the end of digging that out, i'd be at the end of the tunnel, 10 yards inside the mountain

What i want is for the tunnel to be created in front of me, so that when i'm finished i'm still at the opening of the tunnel. I want to be able to create a tunnel much longer than my basic speed, and then have to use my own basic speed to travel down it.

Tunneling with the Ranged enhancement plus Hands-Free enhancement from GURPS Powers (p. 85).

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireDrakeK

Also, i'd love to be able to widen the effect, make the tunnel large enough for the whole party to move inside it at once.

Add Area Effect to increase the size of the tunnel you make.

FireDrakeK · 04-16-2017, 07:13 PM

Thank you Ghostdancer, as always your help is greatly appreciated!

i fear i might have not included enough information and so i might have been a little confusing.

the enhanced levels of tunnel are called Tunnel Move which covers how fast i burrow through the ground as i dig. What i want is for the tunnel to burrow by itself rapidly, much faster than i can walk, while i am left standing at the opening of the tunnel, for a set distance.

i'm not interested in doing this hands free, or at range. it's a melee effect. i have to touch what i'm digging through, but then i don't move and the tunnel does, for just one round.

then if i want to dig any deeper i have to enter the tunnel, run to the back of it, hit the thing i want to dig through with my hand (this is why it seems like a melee attack to me) and then wait while the tunnel the next section, again rapidly, i figure in the space of a round.

i only want, what is in my mind, roughly half the effects of Tunnel. the fact that i would be able to scout my tunnel before going in, might make this more of a feature than a limitation, i'm unsure.

i want something more like Mosses parting the red sea, and less like a cartoon Gopher, or the street sharks.

i'm reasonably certain that this isn't control though, as i want to ONLY be able to use it to tunnel.

Christopher R. Rice · 04-16-2017, 07:36 PM

Requiring that you touch the target first is probably a feature - maybe Melee Attack, but having it so it moves afterward is a bit odd.

I'd still go with something like: Tunneling (Hands-Free, +20%) plus a Feature: "Tunneling continues at a standard pace as long as I don't move."

So the character touches the ground and then it digs 1 yard in the first second, then 2 yards, then 3 yards, and so on - but you have to stay right where you are or the tunneling stops.

FireDrakeK · 04-16-2017, 07:56 PM

but if you have it built that way, than i could build the whole tunnel at once without ever having to move. i would not have to chase the end of the tunnel. inside, spending my own actions to move so i could dig it again. i could just stand there for longer to build a longer tunnel.

with your suggestion, Ghost dancer, i'd have to slap on a half a dozen or so enhancements or limitations to get it to handle the way i want it, and at that point... i might as well just build my own custom advantage from scratch. in my experience gurps isn't usually that Hand-wave-y. I've nearly always been able to find a more elegant solution.

if not for the explicit instructions under control or innate attack that say "this advantage should never be used to tunnel"... it would be way way easier to get at what i want from those powers.

maybe this is just one of those few cracks in the system that isn't covered.

Christopher R. Rice · 04-16-2017, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireDrakeK

but if you have it built that way, than i could build the whole tunnel at once without ever having to move. i would not have to chase the end of the tunnel. inside, spending my own actions to move so i could dig it again. i could just stand there for longer to build a longer tunnel.

with your suggestion, Ghost dancer, i'd have to slap on a half a dozen or so enhancements or limitations to get it to handle the way i want it, and at that point... i might as well just build my own custom advantage from scratch. in my experience gurps isn't usually that Hand-wave-y. I've nearly always been able to find a more elegant solution.

if not for the explicit instructions under control or innate attack that say "this advantage should never be used to tunnel"... it would be way way easier to get at what i want from those powers.

maybe this is just one of those few cracks in the system that isn't covered.

Ok. Maybe I'm not getting what you're saying here. Could you break what you want the ability to do in as plain a language as possible?

FireDrakeK · 04-17-2017, 06:46 AM

i found it!

it's create stone with the +0 destruction feature, and a -10% accessibility, only in the shape of straight lines emanating from the character.

simple. elegant. that's the GURPS i know and love.

it's not tunneling. it's create, because i'm not really tunneling, i'm just controlling the thing i'm touching. there is no tunneling speed, no game mechanic that moves the character, and the character doesn't in any way tunnel himself, the character commands the rock to do it for him. it's an edge-case, and that's why it's create and not tunnel.

with enough enhancements, persistent and the like, i could actually start the destruction, and then race the tunnels' growth. this is exactly what i wanted.

sorry about the confusion ghostdancer, and thank you for all your help. sorry i couldn't be more clear earlier.

Christopher R. Rice · 04-17-2017, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireDrakeK

i found it!

it's create stone with the +0 destruction feature, and a -10% accessibility, only in the shape of straight lines emanating from the character.

simple. elegant. that's the GURPS i know and love.

it's not tunneling. it's create, because i'm not really tunneling, i'm just controlling the thing i'm touching. there is no tunneling speed, no game mechanic that moves the character, and the character doesn't in any way tunnel himself, the character commands the rock to do it for him. it's an edge-case, and that's why it's create and not tunnel.

with enough enhancements, persistent and the like, i could actually start the destruction, and then race the tunnels' growth. this is exactly what i wanted.

sorry about the confusion ghostdancer, and thank you for all your help. sorry i couldn't be more clear earlier.

That's not a bad idea, but it's likely to get more expensive than simple Tunneling. I hadn't slept in a few days - I should have thought of this eariler.

FireDrakeK · 04-24-2017, 09:48 AM

just to follow up Ghostdancer. Tunneling is a flat 30 points to get started and 5 points per HALF level of speed (so more like 10 per level... half levels are rarely relevant)

Even the most Expensive form of Create (destroy) only clicks in at 40 points a level, but has EXPONENTIAL growth, and a much higher initial value.

Level one of Create gives me way more bang for my buck.

Tunneling, by my calculations is more effective than level 2 or three growth, if you assume that 40 a level cost for anything made of solid matter, but if you slap on, just organics, and now it's 30 points a level...

and suddenly you don't even have to worry about the curve anymore. Create is cheaper at the get-go and mind blowingly cheep later on (thanks to the exponential value of the power... (honestly i think this kind of logic is a holdover by some designers who longed for some of the things that 3rd left behind).

of course... without the tunneling power, what i have done is just handed my GM an unexplored dungeon, I've placed all of the party at the door to. have fun mr GM! Honestly the tunneling power is a better value when you think about it, but it's not in any way what i'm looking for :D

these are the kinds of powers i truely love. and i'll keep my levels of it low because i have no desire to be broken.

04-16-2017, 06:21 PM	#1
FireDrakeK Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: NYC	Need Help Building Tunneling Power I've been over Powers, Super, The Dungeon Fantasy series, and more. Any help figuring this out would be very appreciated. Okay, so If i had the ability to place my hand on a cliff face of a mountain, and disintegrate the mountain until there was a tunnel 10 yards long in front of me, that seems to me to be pretty much a just cinematic description of tunnel (probably about level 20?), but mechanically by the end of digging that out, i'd be at the end of the tunnel, 10 yards inside the mountain. What i want is for the tunnel to be created in front of me, so that when i'm finished i'm still at the opening of the tunnel. I want to be able to create a tunnel much longer than my basic speed, and then have to use my own basic speed to travel down it. Also, i'd love to be able to widen the effect, make the tunnel large enough for the whole party to move inside it at once. Thanks.

04-16-2017, 07:13 PM	#3
FireDrakeK Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: NYC	Re: Need Help Building Tunneling Power Thank you Ghostdancer, as always your help is greatly appreciated! i fear i might have not included enough information and so i might have been a little confusing. the enhanced levels of tunnel are called Tunnel Move which covers how fast i burrow through the ground as i dig. What i want is for the tunnel to burrow by itself rapidly, much faster than i can walk, while i am left standing at the opening of the tunnel, for a set distance. i'm not interested in doing this hands free, or at range. it's a melee effect. i have to touch what i'm digging through, but then i don't move and the tunnel does, for just one round. then if i want to dig any deeper i have to enter the tunnel, run to the back of it, hit the thing i want to dig through with my hand (this is why it seems like a melee attack to me) and then wait while the tunnel the next section, again rapidly, i figure in the space of a round. i only want, what is in my mind, roughly half the effects of Tunnel. the fact that i would be able to scout my tunnel before going in, might make this more of a feature than a limitation, i'm unsure. i want something more like Mosses parting the red sea, and less like a cartoon Gopher, or the street sharks. i'm reasonably certain that this isn't control though, as i want to ONLY be able to use it to tunnel. Last edited by FireDrakeK; 04-16-2017 at 07:27 PM.

04-16-2017, 07:36 PM	#4
Christopher R. Rice Raven and a Writing Desk Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Portsmouth, VA, USA	Re: Need Help Building Tunneling Power Requiring that you touch the target first is probably a feature - maybe Melee Attack, but having it so it moves afterward is a bit odd. I'd still go with something like: Tunneling (Hands-Free, +20%) plus a Feature: "Tunneling continues at a standard pace as long as I don't move." So the character touches the ground and then it digs 1 yard in the first second, then 2 yards, then 3 yards, and so on - but you have to stay right where you are or the tunneling stops. __________________ My Twitter My w23 Stuff My Blog Latest GURPS Book: Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Thieves Latest TFT Book: The Sunken Library Become a Patron!

04-16-2017, 07:56 PM	#5
FireDrakeK Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: NYC	Re: Need Help Building Tunneling Power but if you have it built that way, than i could build the whole tunnel at once without ever having to move. i would not have to chase the end of the tunnel. inside, spending my own actions to move so i could dig it again. i could just stand there for longer to build a longer tunnel. with your suggestion, Ghost dancer, i'd have to slap on a half a dozen or so enhancements or limitations to get it to handle the way i want it, and at that point... i might as well just build my own custom advantage from scratch. in my experience gurps isn't usually that Hand-wave-y. I've nearly always been able to find a more elegant solution. if not for the explicit instructions under control or innate attack that say "this advantage should never be used to tunnel"... it would be way way easier to get at what i want from those powers. maybe this is just one of those few cracks in the system that isn't covered.

04-17-2017, 06:46 AM	#7
FireDrakeK Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: NYC	Re: Need Help Building Tunneling Power i found it! it's create stone with the +0 destruction feature, and a -10% accessibility, only in the shape of straight lines emanating from the character. simple. elegant. that's the GURPS i know and love. it's not tunneling. it's create, because i'm not really tunneling, i'm just controlling the thing i'm touching. there is no tunneling speed, no game mechanic that moves the character, and the character doesn't in any way tunnel himself, the character commands the rock to do it for him. it's an edge-case, and that's why it's create and not tunnel. with enough enhancements, persistent and the like, i could actually start the destruction, and then race the tunnels' growth. this is exactly what i wanted. sorry about the confusion ghostdancer, and thank you for all your help. sorry i couldn't be more clear earlier.

04-24-2017, 09:48 AM	#9
FireDrakeK Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: NYC	Re: Need Help Building Tunneling Power just to follow up Ghostdancer. Tunneling is a flat 30 points to get started and 5 points per HALF level of speed (so more like 10 per level... half levels are rarely relevant) Even the most Expensive form of Create (destroy) only clicks in at 40 points a level, but has EXPONENTIAL growth, and a much higher initial value. Level one of Create gives me way more bang for my buck. Tunneling, by my calculations is more effective than level 2 or three growth, if you assume that 40 a level cost for anything made of solid matter, but if you slap on, just organics, and now it's 30 points a level... and suddenly you don't even have to worry about the curve anymore. Create is cheaper at the get-go and mind blowingly cheep later on (thanks to the exponential value of the power... (honestly i think this kind of logic is a holdover by some designers who longed for some of the things that 3rd left behind). of course... without the tunneling power, what i have done is just handed my GM an unexplored dungeon, I've placed all of the party at the door to. have fun mr GM! Honestly the tunneling power is a better value when you think about it, but it's not in any way what i'm looking for :D these are the kinds of powers i truely love. and i'll keep my levels of it low because i have no desire to be broken.